Using Radiance to Generate Lighting and Solar Surface Heat Gain Schedules for EnergyPlus

Hello Radiance community,

My work partner and I are attempting to run EnergyPlus simulations with integrated daylight and solar heat gain for a dynamic CFS. After some previous discussions it was believed that we would use Radiance for the daylight simulation and then use EnergyPlus' built in Construction:ComplexFenestrationState module to input the BSDF. The daylight would be plugged into the EnergyPlus building model through the lighting load schedule. And the ComplexFenestrationState would be dynamically changed (using the same control logic) with the EnergyPlus' energy management system (EMS).

Recently we found the presentation from the 2011 International Radiance Workshop by Andy McNeil, "Using Radiance to Generate Lighting and Solar Surface Heat Gain Schedules for EnergyPlus". The presentation appears to use a different method that is more integrated with Radiance but we're not sure how this is done.

genBSDF "change wavelength tag from visible to NIR":
How would one go about running genBSDF for NIR? I read somewhere that the material properties should be changed for NIR, but we're not sure how to do that. Is there a hidden function that can be added to genBSDF to run for NIR? Should the two XMLs be integrated or kept separate?

Creating Surface Heat Gain Schedule:
How would the radiance results be used to calculate the heat gain on each surface? How could this be used to generate a schedule that can be applied to EnergyPlus?

Using Schedules in EnergyPlus:
"EnergyPls code modified to allow schedule of surface heat gains" (modification by Thierry Nouidui and Brian Coffey). I was wondering if this has be implemented, if so how? I saw in the EnergyPlus EMS manual that the EMS system can be used to control exterior building variable, is this the same system?

Sorry for the question overload, I always try to keep it short but there is just so much I want to learn.

Thank you for your time,
Justin

Justin,

genBSDF "change wavelength tag from visible to NIR":

Since that presentation the tag used by Window has been changed from NIR to
solar, so you should use solar.

Creating Surface Heat Gain Schedule:

We created a pseudo view matrix by tracing rays from the window into the
space and binning rays based on the intersection location and material
modifier. You can use genklemsamp, but have to flip the sign on the z
component of the vector.

Using Schedules in EnergyPlus:

"EnergyPls code modified to allow schedule of surface heat gains"
(modification by Thierry Nouidui and Brian Coffey). I was wondering if this
has be implemented, if so how? I saw in the EnergyPlus EMS manual that the
EMS system can be used to control exterior building variable, is this the
same system?

The ability to schedule internal surface heat gains has been incorporated
into the trunk of EnergyPlus starting with version 8.1. The relevant
objects are:

SurfaceProperty:SolarIncidentInside
ComplexFenestrationProperty:SolarAbsorbedLayers

The built in BSDF module gives identical results as using Radiance to
determine solar absorption in the CFS layers. However using Radiance
offers some improvement in the interior distribution of energy (though it
might not be worth using Radiance for this now that EnergyPlus has built in
BSDF capabilities).

That is the extent of my knowledge of EnergyPlus. I don't want to be
mistaken for someone who knows things about EnergyPlus.

Andy

···

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Lars O. Grobe <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Justin!

> genBSDF "change wavelength tag from visible to NIR":
> How would one go about running genBSDF for NIR? I read somewhere that
the material properties should be changed for NIR, but we're not sure how
to do that. Is there a hidden function that can be added to genBSDF to run
for NIR?

genBSDF as Radiance offer three channels. Usually we fill those with data
for three bands in the visible light range and call them RGB. However you
can assign them NIR if you need to. In this case, make R=G=B=NIR, meaning
that you need to first define you NIR band and than use reflection /
transmission measured for this band when setting up you model. Run genBSDF
and the resulting output will be the BSDF in the NIR-band as you defined
it. The tag mentioned is in the XML-file, open it with a text editor to
change it.

Did anyone get a similar approach working with ESP-r?

Cheers, Lars.
_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

Justin,

I understand there is something called "Scheduled Surface Gains" that you
can use for "importing" solar gains in surfaces. However, I am not sure if
this is advisable because of the difficulties in calculating the solar
gains on each surface. Also, if I remember correctly, Andy's method did not
calculate solar inter-reflection on interior surfaces, so I believe that
the "standard" EnergyPlus CFS calculation should do...? it will
re-distribute the beam radiation just as Radiance would... the diffuse,
though, I believe is averaged.

Using Andy's method, I believe, would be justified in cases with complex
interior and exterior geometries, where Radiance's ray-tracing works better.

That is my opinion... not sure what others may think.

Bye

···

2014-04-08 18:50 GMT-03:00 Andrew McNeil <[email protected]>:

Justin,

genBSDF "change wavelength tag from visible to NIR":

Since that presentation the tag used by Window has been changed from NIR
to solar, so you should use solar.

Creating Surface Heat Gain Schedule:

We created a pseudo view matrix by tracing rays from the window into the
space and binning rays based on the intersection location and material
modifier. You can use genklemsamp, but have to flip the sign on the z
component of the vector.

Using Schedules in EnergyPlus:

"EnergyPls code modified to allow schedule of surface heat gains"
(modification by Thierry Nouidui and Brian Coffey). I was wondering if this
has be implemented, if so how? I saw in the EnergyPlus EMS manual that the
EMS system can be used to control exterior building variable, is this the
same system?

The ability to schedule internal surface heat gains has been incorporated
into the trunk of EnergyPlus starting with version 8.1. The relevant
objects are:

SurfaceProperty:SolarIncidentInside
ComplexFenestrationProperty:SolarAbsorbedLayers

The built in BSDF module gives identical results as using Radiance to
determine solar absorption in the CFS layers. However using Radiance
offers some improvement in the interior distribution of energy (though it
might not be worth using Radiance for this now that EnergyPlus has built in
BSDF capabilities).

That is the extent of my knowledge of EnergyPlus. I don't want to be
mistaken for someone who knows things about EnergyPlus.

Andy

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Lars O. Grobe <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Justin!

> genBSDF "change wavelength tag from visible to NIR":
> How would one go about running genBSDF for NIR? I read somewhere that
the material properties should be changed for NIR, but we're not sure how
to do that. Is there a hidden function that can be added to genBSDF to run
for NIR?

genBSDF as Radiance offer three channels. Usually we fill those with data
for three bands in the visible light range and call them RGB. However you
can assign them NIR if you need to. In this case, make R=G=B=NIR, meaning
that you need to first define you NIR band and than use reflection /
transmission measured for this band when setting up you model. Run genBSDF
and the resulting output will be the BSDF in the NIR-band as you defined
it. The tag mentioned is in the XML-file, open it with a text editor to
change it.

Did anyone get a similar approach working with ESP-r?

Cheers, Lars.
_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

--
*Germán Molina L.*
Ingeniero Trainee
Hunter Douglas Chile S.A.
Celular +569 89224445

--

*Nota de Confidencialidad:* Este mensaje incluído los archivos adjuntos son
confidenciales y pueden contener informacion privilegiada protegida por
ley. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, deberia abstenerse de copiarlo,
distribuirlo, divulgarlo o usar la informacion contenida. Por favor, avise
inmediatamente al emisor y borre este mensaje de su sistema. Los mensajes
electronicos son susceptibles de ser cambiados, infectados o adulterados
sin autorizacion. No asumimos responsabilidad alguna por ninguna clase de
cambios o sus consecuencias. Usted debe estar informado que la compania
puede hacer un seguimiento de sus mensajes electronicos y su contenido,
gracias.

*Confidentiality Notice:* The information contained in this email message,
including any attachment, is confidential and is intended only for the
person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are neither the intended
recipient nor the employee or agent responsible for delivering this message
to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you may not review,
retransmit, convert to hard copy, copy, use or distribute this email
message or any attachments to it. If you have received this email in error,
please contact the sender immediately and delete this message from any
computer or other data bank, Thank you.

A informação transmitida é confidencial e para conhecimento exclusivo do
destinatário. Sua utilização, não autorizada, constitui crime passível de
prisão. Todas as precauções possíveis foram tomadas para garantir que este
e-mail não contenha vírus. Uma vez que nossa empresa não pode assumir
responsabilidade por nenhuma perda ou dano causado por este e-mail ou de
seus anexos, recomendamos que o destinatário utilize seus procedimentos de
antivírus antes de qualquer uso.

Actually, when you use the scheduled surface heat gains, energy plus
redistributes energy to account for inter-reflection. It's not as accurate
as computing inter-reflection in Radiance.

But generally, I agree with German that the standard EnergyPlus CFS method
is simpler to implement. We wouldn't have developed our Radiance method if
EnergyPlus supported CFS at the time.

Andy

···

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 3:12 PM, CHI-German Molina <[email protected]> wrote:

Justin,

I understand there is something called "Scheduled Surface Gains" that you
can use for "importing" solar gains in surfaces. However, I am not sure if
this is advisable because of the difficulties in calculating the solar
gains on each surface. Also, if I remember correctly, Andy's method did not
calculate solar inter-reflection on interior surfaces, so I believe that
the "standard" EnergyPlus CFS calculation should do...? it will
re-distribute the beam radiation just as Radiance would... the diffuse,
though, I believe is averaged.

Using Andy's method, I believe, would be justified in cases with complex
interior and exterior geometries, where Radiance's ray-tracing works better.

That is my opinion... not sure what others may think.

Bye

2014-04-08 18:50 GMT-03:00 Andrew McNeil <[email protected]>:

Justin,

genBSDF "change wavelength tag from visible to NIR":

Since that presentation the tag used by Window has been changed from NIR
to solar, so you should use solar.

Creating Surface Heat Gain Schedule:

We created a pseudo view matrix by tracing rays from the window into the
space and binning rays based on the intersection location and material
modifier. You can use genklemsamp, but have to flip the sign on the z
component of the vector.

Using Schedules in EnergyPlus:

"EnergyPls code modified to allow schedule of surface heat gains"
(modification by Thierry Nouidui and Brian Coffey). I was wondering if this
has be implemented, if so how? I saw in the EnergyPlus EMS manual that the
EMS system can be used to control exterior building variable, is this the
same system?

The ability to schedule internal surface heat gains has been incorporated
into the trunk of EnergyPlus starting with version 8.1. The relevant
objects are:

SurfaceProperty:SolarIncidentInside
ComplexFenestrationProperty:SolarAbsorbedLayers

The built in BSDF module gives identical results as using Radiance to
determine solar absorption in the CFS layers. However using Radiance
offers some improvement in the interior distribution of energy (though it
might not be worth using Radiance for this now that EnergyPlus has built in
BSDF capabilities).

That is the extent of my knowledge of EnergyPlus. I don't want to be
mistaken for someone who knows things about EnergyPlus.

Andy

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Lars O. Grobe <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Justin!

> genBSDF "change wavelength tag from visible to NIR":
> How would one go about running genBSDF for NIR? I read somewhere that
the material properties should be changed for NIR, but we're not sure how
to do that. Is there a hidden function that can be added to genBSDF to run
for NIR?

genBSDF as Radiance offer three channels. Usually we fill those with
data for three bands in the visible light range and call them RGB. However
you can assign them NIR if you need to. In this case, make R=G=B=NIR,
meaning that you need to first define you NIR band and than use reflection
/ transmission measured for this band when setting up you model. Run
genBSDF and the resulting output will be the BSDF in the NIR-band as you
defined it. The tag mentioned is in the XML-file, open it with a text
editor to change it.

Did anyone get a similar approach working with ESP-r?

Cheers, Lars.
_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

--
*Germán Molina L.*
Ingeniero Trainee
Hunter Douglas Chile S.A.
Celular +569 89224445

*Nota de Confidencialidad:* Este mensaje incluído los archivos adjuntos
son confidenciales y pueden contener informacion privilegiada protegida por
ley. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, deberia abstenerse de copiarlo,
distribuirlo, divulgarlo o usar la informacion contenida. Por favor, avise
inmediatamente al emisor y borre este mensaje de su sistema. Los mensajes
electronicos son susceptibles de ser cambiados, infectados o adulterados
sin autorizacion. No asumimos responsabilidad alguna por ninguna clase de
cambios o sus consecuencias. Usted debe estar informado que la compania
puede hacer un seguimiento de sus mensajes electronicos y su contenido,
gracias.

*Confidentiality Notice:* The information contained in this email
message, including any attachment, is confidential and is intended only for
the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are neither the
intended recipient nor the employee or agent responsible for delivering
this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you
may not review, retransmit, convert to hard copy, copy, use or distribute
this email message or any attachments to it. If you have received this
email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete this
message from any computer or other data bank, Thank you.

A informação transmitida é confidencial e para conhecimento exclusivo do
destinatário. Sua utilização, não autorizada, constitui crime passível de
prisão. Todas as precauções possíveis foram tomadas para garantir que este
e-mail não contenha vírus. Uma vez que nossa empresa não pode assumir
responsabilidade por nenhuma perda ou dano causado por este e-mail ou de
seus anexos, recomendamos que o destinatário utilize seus procedimentos de
antivírus antes de qualquer uso.

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for the thorough responses. It appears as though the suggestions
are towards using EnergyPlus' integrated CFS functionally with WINDOW
generated solar XMLs. This is good news and confirms what we were already
in the process of doing.

Thank you for your time,
Justin

···

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Actually, when you use the scheduled surface heat gains, energy plus
redistributes energy to account for inter-reflection. It's not as accurate
as computing inter-reflection in Radiance.

But generally, I agree with German that the standard EnergyPlus CFS method
is simpler to implement. We wouldn't have developed our Radiance method if
EnergyPlus supported CFS at the time.

Andy

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 3:12 PM, CHI-German Molina <[email protected]>wrote:

Justin,

I understand there is something called "Scheduled Surface Gains" that you
can use for "importing" solar gains in surfaces. However, I am not sure if
this is advisable because of the difficulties in calculating the solar
gains on each surface. Also, if I remember correctly, Andy's method did not
calculate solar inter-reflection on interior surfaces, so I believe that
the "standard" EnergyPlus CFS calculation should do...? it will
re-distribute the beam radiation just as Radiance would... the diffuse,
though, I believe is averaged.

Using Andy's method, I believe, would be justified in cases with complex
interior and exterior geometries, where Radiance's ray-tracing works better.

That is my opinion... not sure what others may think.

Bye

2014-04-08 18:50 GMT-03:00 Andrew McNeil <[email protected]>:

Justin,

genBSDF "change wavelength tag from visible to NIR":

Since that presentation the tag used by Window has been changed from NIR
to solar, so you should use solar.

Creating Surface Heat Gain Schedule:

We created a pseudo view matrix by tracing rays from the window into the
space and binning rays based on the intersection location and material
modifier. You can use genklemsamp, but have to flip the sign on the z
component of the vector.

Using Schedules in EnergyPlus:

"EnergyPls code modified to allow schedule of surface heat gains"
(modification by Thierry Nouidui and Brian Coffey). I was wondering if this
has be implemented, if so how? I saw in the EnergyPlus EMS manual that the
EMS system can be used to control exterior building variable, is this the
same system?

The ability to schedule internal surface heat gains has been
incorporated into the trunk of EnergyPlus starting with version 8.1. The
relevant objects are:

SurfaceProperty:SolarIncidentInside
ComplexFenestrationProperty:SolarAbsorbedLayers

The built in BSDF module gives identical results as using Radiance to
determine solar absorption in the CFS layers. However using Radiance
offers some improvement in the interior distribution of energy (though it
might not be worth using Radiance for this now that EnergyPlus has built in
BSDF capabilities).

That is the extent of my knowledge of EnergyPlus. I don't want to be
mistaken for someone who knows things about EnergyPlus.

Andy

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Lars O. Grobe <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Justin!

> genBSDF "change wavelength tag from visible to NIR":
> How would one go about running genBSDF for NIR? I read somewhere that
the material properties should be changed for NIR, but we're not sure how
to do that. Is there a hidden function that can be added to genBSDF to run
for NIR?

genBSDF as Radiance offer three channels. Usually we fill those with
data for three bands in the visible light range and call them RGB. However
you can assign them NIR if you need to. In this case, make R=G=B=NIR,
meaning that you need to first define you NIR band and than use reflection
/ transmission measured for this band when setting up you model. Run
genBSDF and the resulting output will be the BSDF in the NIR-band as you
defined it. The tag mentioned is in the XML-file, open it with a text
editor to change it.

Did anyone get a similar approach working with ESP-r?

Cheers, Lars.
_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

--
*Germán Molina L.*
Ingeniero Trainee
Hunter Douglas Chile S.A.
Celular +569 89224445

*Nota de Confidencialidad:* Este mensaje incluído los archivos adjuntos
son confidenciales y pueden contener informacion privilegiada protegida por
ley. Si Ud. no es el destinatario, deberia abstenerse de copiarlo,
distribuirlo, divulgarlo o usar la informacion contenida. Por favor, avise
inmediatamente al emisor y borre este mensaje de su sistema. Los mensajes
electronicos son susceptibles de ser cambiados, infectados o adulterados
sin autorizacion. No asumimos responsabilidad alguna por ninguna clase de
cambios o sus consecuencias. Usted debe estar informado que la compania
puede hacer un seguimiento de sus mensajes electronicos y su contenido,
gracias.

*Confidentiality Notice:* The information contained in this email
message, including any attachment, is confidential and is intended only for
the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are neither the
intended recipient nor the employee or agent responsible for delivering
this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you
may not review, retransmit, convert to hard copy, copy, use or distribute
this email message or any attachments to it. If you have received this
email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete this
message from any computer or other data bank, Thank you.

A informação transmitida é confidencial e para conhecimento exclusivo do
destinatário. Sua utilização, não autorizada, constitui crime passível de
prisão. Todas as precauções possíveis foram tomadas para garantir que este
e-mail não contenha vírus. Uma vez que nossa empresa não pode assumir
responsabilidade por nenhuma perda ou dano causado por este e-mail ou de
seus anexos, recomendamos que o destinatário utilize seus procedimentos de
antivírus antes de qualquer uso.

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general