Sun Matrix by gendaymtx and genskyvec

When we are generating the sun matrix for the Five Phase and the improved version of the Daylight Coefficient Method, gendaymtx is used in Sarith's tutorial file. "-5 0.533" is used.

Is there a simply way to generate the sun matrix by using genskyvec? Or it can only be applied to gendaymtx.

Thanks,

Tommy

···

--
Minchen (Tommy) Wei, PhD
The Hong Kong Polytechnic University
(+852)-3400 3606 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

From: Sarith Subramaniam [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 10:30 PM
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] Proxy geometry in the five-phase method

The Daylight Coefficient<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1pwYjyfECioNK-IZQaYHpYgDxyRRo3ITTQENkig9kw9FqwwwoGID5yJvJblMF7FQyMit0WXP1sTUitPEnogxEjc3xzg9NbBXYRy3Eax2Wakgp_fKK8ZCnJXMoKuzRC_sD4pLcpHHR7eJuAjrz-atS0rh5VBmJEaYmIGDvrVH8Jo79nJVm-RoVLjUwuzXYdiwAAZkF87jVOgbZBXF84wHsjxKQG3nUcncH1r5hpYxjmOzJJDXixSActuGLeS5TJtiqDYEe7gJ85UG1IC_OZCBOkEGy6BP62_XuMZ2KKKLv4j2oJtBTealeeJY0Mqm5r8iZSkTIbAZrch-r1oMVrHmIDw/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsariths%2FradTutorialFiles%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Froom%2Fcommands%2F2PM_DayCoeff.sh> and Three Phase<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1pg-R4oOYN4qlA761yn7HPpJWzLn3gegHd_POgv3d0Hl-0JNc-BK8pUBYDTCovjPbt7jL-iGI8eNFG1ie0kw_MQ14rNpbY5HsxncH22y5BIegt88ldTO5S-IQBoGPE_zAOTRt5TdavMrv9ZZLr-plninhT3X4KSRgx1z7KA2FaO8zq95Zgv39tOd3WjLLWw9y6luhxyUapY6pfx1SygiAYvwjUGEm2y9zL9NbbtXWasKQNyVoAc7iDrxicBiBq0fkmf2ulEMKpST-Op5flumenYU6bWixeNg_WBrycyUY2iLIWxxgC1uIsOY4xqU2d3Y2W4B29h6E1Awkh9dWOxatPg/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsariths%2FradTutorialFiles%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Froom%2Fcommands%2F3PM.sh> examples use a sky with 145 patches in which the sun accounts for 3-4 patches. In these examples, the sky and sun are both represented through the "glow" primitive and the ray-tracing is stochastic. The additional steps in the Five Phase<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1SNL9QyudvsTuPYlvdt43A-qZ-KyPbGAMRel-zsVPigX2xs0xTsUDTx4nI2B6G06mVrqN-QzggC_x7XNNfyvajji_t0F12h_Noame6kt22SXDNic6wm5Z9mJ4JA5oRmlZ7RbCtjcPxxj9Gm8DDeJt0Tyyy4N1NQbMUWcEIInbGalU2ZNsl173OiO2Jy5WN3iUs4x8mgKo0B3N49dLyN8wuZtHauvgsFuEjm6ZQt9nqFQoGQ4xXYf0xBAWSJqc_fY_Bk3fhPqlJGvW_4LPPIPTHSaP2hUqrLMsaFeRUIVvynugVo74pzbgrWUHC48kjVP-m7_On6Pn-VvkgpG2CSjS_w/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsariths%2FradTutorialFiles%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Froom%2Fcommands%2F5PM.sh> example subtract out the direct component of the results from the glow-based oversized sun patches and replace them with replace them with accurately calculated direct sun-results. In this case, the sun is represented using the "light" primitive (implying a deterministic calculation) and is also more appropriately sized (0.533 degrees).

The exercise files also contain an improved version<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1a7v6ZRWjq_BRXwSGqIym1laBFwj3hqTl4x-klnmLNrzFlzKsCyFB6Tboy01hi9ZHHTT47P4icbSAo7UXpg6lF8R3-OVA9H2eST0wOgH5kmcFJj2bxBkMDgpe7C9mSuMVYYW6FBL2q-lo-BDiTz298QQLsuk78mGpG_4FSri5uKUAUP1GJ9KDTsK_94d12mwzIQnPaXyso39c4vmZNiLpJbQUZgVL_CbMWLQC-fDNlqy1UtIlnfVKSydM9aeVooR00Xyh4nNfgRVnDhUHATPhqpUblt_9M-LbWBOsmQy7EsfTR5sN2aDrKBrZ9D829zIlp58waJIVdLNU_sCoN81TDQ/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsariths%2FradTutorialFiles%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Froom%2Fcommands%2F2PM_DDS.sh> of the Daylight Coefficient Method that features the direct-sun correction. I think the results from that calculation and the Five Phase calculation will be similar as they both involve the direct-sun correction.

The final part of the Five-Phase method requires Tensor-Tree BSDFs. The methodology for creating BSDFs from Radiance primitives is discussed in the genBSDF tutorial<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1O7rB4s36mYQNrGEqpoXIPPoj3auC2BVqX_7ft-8OdRq59B1w6l8gNJHazbAyuX-oX8W1dlL3t33RIg4XX0dgXso5HYV-Md28oE1uNnZHOdSLfMBsYnc9OsI9vgIlKaB9YbWM94A-0QBUjSn98z4yj9T2FdzN0g9xrF7xiUDSZ8_8WRs-8Cl5p8y56Rt9dD9UAb2J2ptR3fgoMYGOY6DauNxOe5eSo0H0Gs54FjD5XlbDumSNO3_rVn6sLjW0DDdvgWxn7_UKYG8ga9lZO5GlxeTgsWoPYKGhNRClAu4j3YGpDAbuKr1fNQ-EBkUciCj4/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.radiance-online.org%2Flearning%2Ftutorials%2FTutorial-genBSDF_v1.0.1.pdf>. If your glazing system is just a simple glazing comprised of something like "glass" or "trans", you can incorporate the glazing geometry directly. This process would be similar to what is discussed for the improved Daylight Coefficient calculation<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1wRAmRRitS0eb6bxNSu02bADJMEHfIbrSNyUsDF_HBK4mL-o5lOOGPt2ViV12wI2YrhdR5hVjk0v6SqEoSN56-C13TIEn13LbJS1BCcE5wfSiLvhysFOW33TN9i71-l3hWkJQxz5aXMZqYO0mb7l8bI8usVKf5tuWMe70hCvq_0s8wqSmPVoYs0XJuY_3ve8vP5xMweezH507pTBy-4tqzLbAUO02RLjd_ZKstkz_sXJxolPIzNky23KmKUL5Wv59s2GzJBChlBs9XKghA7l2CEXDC2FJlJugnua1wJwi-OxDu6WHwniVxpvP2kszs4F84cFmsmJw3abiGoWcf0htCQ/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsariths%2FradTutorialFiles%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Froom%2Fcommands%2F2PM_DDS.sh%23L55-L73>.

Sarith

On 12/8/2017 4:11 AM, WEI, Minchen [BSE] wrote:
Hi All,

I have questions regarding the proxy geometry in the five-phase method.

I tried the tutorial using a room with a glazing (no venetian blinds). The daylight coefficient and three-phase method can produce similar results, but the five-phase method produce smaller illuminance values.

I think the problem is coming from the "proxy geometry". In my "proxy geometry" I only included a glazing geometry with the transmittance I used in the daylight coefficient method. Is that right?

I looked at the proxy geometry included in Sarith's tutorial which included all the blinds, the glazing, and a BSDF ("blindsT4c.xml") for maxPoly and minPoly. How should I generate these BSDF if I have the blinds?

Thanks,

Tommy

--
Minchen (Tommy) Wei, PhD
The Hong Kong Polytechnic University
(+852)-3400 3606 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

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www.polyu.edu.hk/80anniversary<http://www.polyu.edu.hk/80anniversary>

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Disclaimer:

This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and notify the sender and The Hong Kong Polytechnic University (the University) immediately. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

The University specifically denies any responsibility for the accuracy or quality of information obtained through University E-mail Facilities. Any views and opinions expressed are only those of the author(s) and do not necessarily represent those of the University and the University accepts no liability whatsoever for any losses or damages incurred or caused to any party as a result of the use of such information.

Hi Tommy,

Looks like no one responded to your question. I'm not sure what the correct response is, as the 5-phase method only applies to annual calculations. There is a "-d" option to genskyvec that outputs zero values except for the sun, but that sun is spread over 3 adjacent patches, which is what the "-5" option in genskymtx avoids.

If you really want to reproduce the 5-phase calculation at a single time point for some reason, why don't you edit the input file to gendaymtx to contain only that time point? You can run the rest of the calculation as you would for an annual simulation, I think.

-Greg

···

From: "WEI, Minchen [BSE]" <[email protected]>
Date: December 9, 2017 5:20:15 AM PST

When we are generating the sun matrix for the Five Phase and the improved version of the Daylight Coefficient Method, gendaymtx is used in Sarith’s tutorial file. “-5 0.533” is used.

Is there a simply way to generate the sun matrix by using genskyvec? Or it can only be applied to gendaymtx.

Thanks,

Tommy

--
Minchen (Tommy) Wei, PhD
The Hong Kong Polytechnic University
(+852)-3400 3606 [email protected]

From: Sarith Subramaniam [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 10:30 PM
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] Proxy geometry in the five-phase method

The Daylight Coefficient and Three Phase examples use a sky with 145 patches in which the sun accounts for 3-4 patches. In these examples, the sky and sun are both represented through the "glow" primitive and the ray-tracing is stochastic. The additional steps in the Five Phase example subtract out the direct component of the results from the glow-based oversized sun patches and replace them with replace them with accurately calculated direct sun-results. In this case, the sun is represented using the "light" primitive (implying a deterministic calculation) and is also more appropriately sized (0.533 degrees).

The exercise files also contain an improved version of the Daylight Coefficient Method that features the direct-sun correction. I think the results from that calculation and the Five Phase calculation will be similar as they both involve the direct-sun correction.

The final part of the Five-Phase method requires Tensor-Tree BSDFs. The methodology for creating BSDFs from Radiance primitives is discussed in the genBSDF tutorial. If your glazing system is just a simple glazing comprised of something like "glass" or "trans", you can incorporate the glazing geometry directly. This process would be similar to what is discussed for the improved Daylight Coefficient calculation.

Sarith

On 12/8/2017 4:11 AM, WEI, Minchen [BSE] wrote:
Hi All,

I have questions regarding the proxy geometry in the five-phase method.

I tried the tutorial using a room with a glazing (no venetian blinds). The daylight coefficient and three-phase method can produce similar results, but the five-phase method produce smaller illuminance values.

I think the problem is coming from the “proxy geometry”. In my “proxy geometry” I only included a glazing geometry with the transmittance I used in the daylight coefficient method. Is that right?

I looked at the proxy geometry included in Sarith’s tutorial which included all the blinds, the glazing, and a BSDF (“blindsT4c.xml”) for maxPoly and minPoly. How should I generate these BSDF if I have the blinds?

Thanks,

Tommy

I have actually done what Greg is mentioning ... write the header of the
WEA file, and the time and radiation data of the time you want to evaluate.
Then , gendaymtx -5 0.533 -d file.wea

···

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 at 10:29 PM, Greg Ward <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Tommy,

Looks like no one responded to your question. I'm not sure what the
correct response is, as the 5-phase method only applies to annual
calculations. There is a "-d" option to genskyvec that outputs zero values
except for the sun, but that sun is spread over 3 adjacent patches, which
is what the "-5" option in genskymtx avoids.

If you really want to reproduce the 5-phase calculation at a single time
point for some reason, why don't you edit the input file to gendaymtx to
contain only that time point? You can run the rest of the calculation as
you would for an annual simulation, I think.

-Greg

*From: *"WEI, Minchen [BSE]" <[email protected]>

*Date: *December 9, 2017 5:20:15 AM PST

When we are generating the sun matrix for the Five Phase and the improved
version of the Daylight Coefficient Method, gendaymtx is used in Sarith’s
tutorial file. “-5 0.533” is used.

Is there a simply way to generate the sun matrix by using genskyvec? Or it
can only be applied to gendaymtx.

Thanks,

Tommy

--

*Minchen (Tommy) Wei, PhD*

The Hong Kong Polytechnic University

(+852)-3400 3606 [email protected]

*From:* Sarith Subramaniam [mailto:[email protected]]
*Sent:* Friday, 8 December 2017 10:30 PM
*To:* Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [Radiance-general] Proxy geometry in the five-phase method

The Daylight Coefficient
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1pwYjyfECioNK-IZQaYHpYgDxyRRo3ITTQENkig9kw9FqwwwoGID5yJvJblMF7FQyMit0WXP1sTUitPEnogxEjc3xzg9NbBXYRy3Eax2Wakgp_fKK8ZCnJXMoKuzRC_sD4pLcpHHR7eJuAjrz-atS0rh5VBmJEaYmIGDvrVH8Jo79nJVm-RoVLjUwuzXYdiwAAZkF87jVOgbZBXF84wHsjxKQG3nUcncH1r5hpYxjmOzJJDXixSActuGLeS5TJtiqDYEe7gJ85UG1IC_OZCBOkEGy6BP62_XuMZ2KKKLv4j2oJtBTealeeJY0Mqm5r8iZSkTIbAZrch-r1oMVrHmIDw/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsariths%2FradTutorialFiles%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Froom%2Fcommands%2F2PM_DayCoeff.sh>
and Three Phase
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1pg-R4oOYN4qlA761yn7HPpJWzLn3gegHd_POgv3d0Hl-0JNc-BK8pUBYDTCovjPbt7jL-iGI8eNFG1ie0kw_MQ14rNpbY5HsxncH22y5BIegt88ldTO5S-IQBoGPE_zAOTRt5TdavMrv9ZZLr-plninhT3X4KSRgx1z7KA2FaO8zq95Zgv39tOd3WjLLWw9y6luhxyUapY6pfx1SygiAYvwjUGEm2y9zL9NbbtXWasKQNyVoAc7iDrxicBiBq0fkmf2ulEMKpST-Op5flumenYU6bWixeNg_WBrycyUY2iLIWxxgC1uIsOY4xqU2d3Y2W4B29h6E1Awkh9dWOxatPg/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsariths%2FradTutorialFiles%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Froom%2Fcommands%2F3PM.sh>
examples use a sky with 145 patches in which the sun accounts for 3-4
patches. In these examples, the sky and sun are both represented through
the "glow" primitive and the ray-tracing is stochastic. The additional
steps in the Five Phase
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1SNL9QyudvsTuPYlvdt43A-qZ-KyPbGAMRel-zsVPigX2xs0xTsUDTx4nI2B6G06mVrqN-QzggC_x7XNNfyvajji_t0F12h_Noame6kt22SXDNic6wm5Z9mJ4JA5oRmlZ7RbCtjcPxxj9Gm8DDeJt0Tyyy4N1NQbMUWcEIInbGalU2ZNsl173OiO2Jy5WN3iUs4x8mgKo0B3N49dLyN8wuZtHauvgsFuEjm6ZQt9nqFQoGQ4xXYf0xBAWSJqc_fY_Bk3fhPqlJGvW_4LPPIPTHSaP2hUqrLMsaFeRUIVvynugVo74pzbgrWUHC48kjVP-m7_On6Pn-VvkgpG2CSjS_w/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsariths%2FradTutorialFiles%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Froom%2Fcommands%2F5PM.sh>
example subtract out the direct component of the results from the
glow-based oversized sun patches and replace them with replace them with
accurately calculated direct sun-results. In this case, the sun is
represented using the "light" primitive (implying a deterministic
calculation) and is also more appropriately sized (0.533 degrees).

The exercise files also contain an improved version
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1a7v6ZRWjq_BRXwSGqIym1laBFwj3hqTl4x-klnmLNrzFlzKsCyFB6Tboy01hi9ZHHTT47P4icbSAo7UXpg6lF8R3-OVA9H2eST0wOgH5kmcFJj2bxBkMDgpe7C9mSuMVYYW6FBL2q-lo-BDiTz298QQLsuk78mGpG_4FSri5uKUAUP1GJ9KDTsK_94d12mwzIQnPaXyso39c4vmZNiLpJbQUZgVL_CbMWLQC-fDNlqy1UtIlnfVKSydM9aeVooR00Xyh4nNfgRVnDhUHATPhqpUblt_9M-LbWBOsmQy7EsfTR5sN2aDrKBrZ9D829zIlp58waJIVdLNU_sCoN81TDQ/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsariths%2FradTutorialFiles%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Froom%2Fcommands%2F2PM_DDS.sh>
of the Daylight Coefficient Method that features the direct-sun correction.
I think the results from that calculation and the Five Phase calculation
will be similar as they both involve the direct-sun correction.

The final part of the Five-Phase method requires Tensor-Tree BSDFs. The
methodology for creating BSDFs from Radiance primitives is discussed in the genBSDF
tutorial
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1O7rB4s36mYQNrGEqpoXIPPoj3auC2BVqX_7ft-8OdRq59B1w6l8gNJHazbAyuX-oX8W1dlL3t33RIg4XX0dgXso5HYV-Md28oE1uNnZHOdSLfMBsYnc9OsI9vgIlKaB9YbWM94A-0QBUjSn98z4yj9T2FdzN0g9xrF7xiUDSZ8_8WRs-8Cl5p8y56Rt9dD9UAb2J2ptR3fgoMYGOY6DauNxOe5eSo0H0Gs54FjD5XlbDumSNO3_rVn6sLjW0DDdvgWxn7_UKYG8ga9lZO5GlxeTgsWoPYKGhNRClAu4j3YGpDAbuKr1fNQ-EBkUciCj4/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.radiance-online.org%2Flearning%2Ftutorials%2FTutorial-genBSDF_v1.0.1.pdf>.
If your glazing system is just a simple glazing comprised of something like
"glass" or "trans", you can incorporate the glazing geometry directly. This
process would be similar to what is discussed for the improved Daylight
Coefficient calculation
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1wRAmRRitS0eb6bxNSu02bADJMEHfIbrSNyUsDF_HBK4mL-o5lOOGPt2ViV12wI2YrhdR5hVjk0v6SqEoSN56-C13TIEn13LbJS1BCcE5wfSiLvhysFOW33TN9i71-l3hWkJQxz5aXMZqYO0mb7l8bI8usVKf5tuWMe70hCvq_0s8wqSmPVoYs0XJuY_3ve8vP5xMweezH507pTBy-4tqzLbAUO02RLjd_ZKstkz_sXJxolPIzNky23KmKUL5Wv59s2GzJBChlBs9XKghA7l2CEXDC2FJlJugnua1wJwi-OxDu6WHwniVxpvP2kszs4F84cFmsmJw3abiGoWcf0htCQ/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fsariths%2FradTutorialFiles%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Froom%2Fcommands%2F2PM_DDS.sh%23L55-L73>.

Sarith

On 12/8/2017 4:11 AM, WEI, Minchen [BSE] wrote:

Hi All,

I have questions regarding the proxy geometry in the five-phase method.

I tried the tutorial using a room with a glazing (no venetian blinds). The
daylight coefficient and three-phase method can produce similar results,
but the five-phase method produce smaller illuminance values.

I think the problem is coming from the “proxy geometry”. In my “proxy
geometry” I only included a glazing geometry with the transmittance I used
in the daylight coefficient method. Is that right?

I looked at the proxy geometry included in Sarith’s tutorial which
included all the blinds, the glazing, and a BSDF (“blindsT4c.xml”) for
maxPoly and minPoly. How should I generate these BSDF if I have the blinds?

Thanks,

Tommy

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Radiance-general mailing list
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