Dear all,
Has anyone come across subsurface scattering in Radiance ? Is it possible,
under consideration ?
Any relevant documentation ?
Thanks a lot,
Regards,
Thibault
42-43 Gloucester Crescent
London
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I think you're gonna want to dig into the archives on the photon map module that Roland Schregele wrote.
- Rob
On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:59 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Dear all,
Has anyone come across subsurface scattering in Radiance ? Is it possible, under consideration ?
Any relevant documentation ?
Thanks a lot,
Regards,
Thibault<Mail Attachment.jpeg>
42-43 Gloucester Crescent
London
NW1 7PE
T +44 (0) 20 7267 5161
F +44 (0) 20 7482 0329
maxfordham.comMax Fordham LLP is a Limited Liability Partnership. Registered in England and Wales Number OC300026
Registered office 42-43 Gloucester Crescent, London, NW1 7PE_______________________________________________
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I don't think photon mapping will handle this, either. It's really outside the scope of an architectural rendering package. Subsurface scattering needs to be implemented at a fundamental materials level, and involves gathering contributions from nearby a hit point in a geometry-aware fashion. Not to say that it couldn't be done, but there's no real motivation to add it to Radiance.
Cheers,
-Greg
From: Rob Guglielmetti <[email protected]>
Date: December 11, 2013 9:11:40 AM PSTI think you're gonna want to dig into the archives on the photon map module that Roland Schregele wrote.
- Rob
On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:59 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Dear all,
Has anyone come across subsurface scattering in Radiance ? Is it possible, under consideration ?
Any relevant documentation ?
Thanks a lot,
Regards,
Thibault<Mail Attachment.jpeg>
42-43 Gloucester Crescent
London
NW1 7PE
T +44 (0) 20 7267 5161
F +44 (0) 20 7482 0329
maxfordham.com
Thank you Greg,
It is really useful to work with slightly translucent materials like marble.
I was wondering if it could be modeled via an XML file as the BSDF is. It would be an additional dimension to the tensor tree representation and an additional material parameter (maybe 1 per dimension actually) to quantify the diffusion of light.
Any thought ?
Cheers,
Thibault
PS: Is this photon map module included in the latest Radiance release ? If not, what is the best way to approach caustics ?
-----Greg Ward <[email protected]> a écrit : -----
A : Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
De : Greg Ward <[email protected]>
Date : 11/12/2013 17:17
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Subsurface scattering in Radiance
I don't think photon mapping will handle this, either. It's really outside the scope of an architectural rendering package. Subsurface scattering needs to be implemented at a fundamental materials level, and involves gathering contributions from nearby a hit point in a geometry-aware fashion. Not to say that it couldn't be done, but there's no real motivation to add it to Radiance.
Cheers,
-Greg
From: Rob Guglielmetti <[email protected]>
Date: December 11, 2013 9:11:40 AM PSTI think you're gonna want to dig into the archives on the photon map module that Roland Schregele wrote.
- Rob
On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:59 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Dear all,
Has anyone come across subsurface scattering in Radiance ? Is it possible, under consideration ?
Any relevant documentation ?
Thanks a lot,
Regards,
Thibault<Mail Attachment.jpeg>
42-43 Gloucester Crescent
London
NW1 7PE
T +44 (0) 20 7267 5161
F +44 (0) 20 7482 0329
maxfordham.com
_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
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I'm not saying it couldn't be done. I'm saying there is no one to do it or support such an addition given our current focus. Some things are simply out of scope based on our application area, whatever users may want. You are of course welcome to make such extensions yourself, though I might recommend working with Radzilla or (easier still) utilizing another free renderer that already has such capabilities.
I don't know the current status of the photon mapping add-on for certain. Someone else will have to answer that.
Cheers,
-Greg
From: [email protected]
Date: December 11, 2013 9:38:35 AM PSTThank you Greg,
It is really useful to work with slightly translucent materials like marble.
I was wondering if it could be modeled via an XML file as the BSDF is. It would be an additional dimension to the tensor tree representation and an additional material parameter (maybe 1 per dimension actually) to quantify the diffusion of light.
Any thought ?
Cheers,
ThibaultPS: Is this photon map module included in the latest Radiance release ? If not, what is the best way to approach caustics ?
-----Greg Ward <[email protected]> a écrit : -----
A : Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
De : Greg Ward <[email protected]>
Date : 11/12/2013 17:17
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Subsurface scattering in RadianceI don't think photon mapping will handle this, either. It's really outside the scope of an architectural rendering package. Subsurface scattering needs to be implemented at a fundamental materials level, and involves gathering contributions from nearby a hit point in a geometry-aware fashion. Not to say that it couldn't be done, but there's no real motivation to add it to Radiance.
Cheers,
-Greg> From: Rob Guglielmetti <[email protected]>
> Date: December 11, 2013 9:11:40 AM PST
>
> I think you're gonna want to dig into the archives on the photon map module that Roland Schregele wrote.
>
> - Rob
>
> On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:59 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>> Has anyone come across subsurface scattering in Radiance ? Is it possible, under consideration ?
>> Any relevant documentation ?
>> Thanks a lot,
>> Regards,
>> Thibault
>>
>>
>> <Mail Attachment.jpeg>
>> 42-43 Gloucester Crescent
>> London
>> NW1 7PE
>> T +44 (0) 20 7267 5161
>> F +44 (0) 20 7482 0329
>> maxfordham.com_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general
Hi all,
funny this discussion should come up, because the issue of subsurface
scattering was recently raised in our department precisely within an
architectural context. Lars Grobe conducted some tests with the "mist"
primitive, but the results weren't convincing.
Wann Jensen has proposed a BSSRDF and a photon mapping approach to model
subsurface scattering, so it is doable, but not with the current photon
map implementation; it would require adding the BSSRDF itself plus the
appropriate photon scattering routines. The flux carried within the
material would then be obtained from volume photons, which are already
built in.
Having said that, while we're planning a few (overdue) extensions to the
photon map, subsurface scattering currently doesn't have a high priority.
See ya,
--Roland
On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 18:15:56 +0100, Greg Ward <[email protected]> wrote:
I don't think photon mapping will handle this, either. It's really outside the scope of an architectural rendering package. Subsurface scattering needs to be implemented at a fundamental materials level, and involves gathering contributions from nearby a hit point in a geometry-aware fashion. Not to say that it couldn't be done, but there's no real motivation to add it to Radiance.
--
Dr. Roland Schregle
Senior Research Associate
T direct: +41 41 349 39 77
[email protected]
Lucerne University of Applied Sciences and Arts
School of Engineering and Architecture
CC Envelopes and Solar Energy (EASE)
Technikumstrasse 21, CH-6048 Horw
T +41 41 349 33 11, F +41 41 349 39 60
www.hslu.ch/ccease
Hi Roland,
Thanks for this perspective, good to know the subject is of interest and
thanks for your work on the photon map module.
Thanks Greg for your response. I was not asking anyone to do it, just
wanted to collect the community views on the feasibility and see whether a
collaborative development could interest some of you. I might investigate
this further.
Regards,
Thibault
42-43 Gloucester Crescent
London
NW1 7PE
T +44 (0) 20 7267 5161
F +44 (0) 20 7482 0329
maxfordham.com
Max Fordham LLP is a Limited Liability Partnership. Registered in England
and Wales Number OC300026
Registered office 42-43 Gloucester Crescent, London, NW1 7PE
From: Schregle Roland HSLU T&A <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion
<[email protected]>,
Date: 11/12/2013 17:59
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] Subsurface scattering in Radiance
On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 18:15:56 +0100, Greg Ward <[email protected]> wrote:
I don't think photon mapping will handle this, either. It's really
outside the scope of an architectural rendering package. Subsurface
scattering needs to be implemented at a fundamental materials level, and
involves gathering contributions from nearby a hit point in a
geometry-aware fashion. Not to say that it couldn't be done, but
there's no real motivation to add it to Radiance.
Hi all,
funny this discussion should come up, because the issue of subsurface
scattering was recently raised in our department precisely within an
architectural context. Lars Grobe conducted some tests with the "mist"
primitive, but the results weren't convincing.
Wann Jensen has proposed a BSSRDF and a photon mapping approach to model
subsurface scattering, so it is doable, but not with the current photon
map implementation; it would require adding the BSSRDF itself plus the
appropriate photon scattering routines. The flux carried within the
material would then be obtained from volume photons, which are already
built in.
Having said that, while we're planning a few (overdue) extensions to the
photon map, subsurface scattering currently doesn't have a high priority.
See ya,
--Roland
--
Dr. Roland Schregle
Senior Research Associate
T direct: +41 41 349 39 77
[email protected]
Lucerne University of Applied Sciences and Arts
School of Engineering and Architecture
CC Envelopes and Solar Energy (EASE)
Technikumstrasse 21, CH-6048 Horw
T +41 41 349 33 11, F +41 41 349 39 60
www.hslu.ch/ccease
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