RE : Light Shelf Reflections

radiance-general
1

hi Shamim
do you assign the mirror surfaces as secondary light source? if you use
ecotect for modelling, in the material assignment of this software, in the
advanced export you should write this discription :
void mirror materail name
0
0
3 1 1 1
does it solve the problem?

···

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Compagnon Raphaël < [email protected]> wrote:

If all these surfaces are mirrors, then you cannot see anything.... unless:
- there is a non-mirror reflecting object somewhere in your scene that is
supoposed to be lit by the multiple-reflecting light path; since it will
reflect light in many directions you should see it!
or
- your point of view is located somewhere on the multiple-reflecting light
path and your view direction points towards it. Then you should directly
see the light source appearing as an image on the last mirror.

Raphaël
________________________________
De : Shamim Javed [[email protected]]
Date d'envoi : lundi 11 mars 2013 15:56
À : Radiance general discussion
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Light Shelf Reflections

I am hoping to see multiple reflections of the light beam reflected off
the light shelf top surface in both the floor and the ceiling (all of which
are mirror surfaces).

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Shamim,

What changes are you expecting to see?

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated
www.visarc.com<http://www.visarc.com>

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 3/11/2013 10:03 AM, Shamim Javed wrote:
I am using Radiance via Ecotect. I have played around with changing the
values for -dr, -av and -ab without seeing any change in the image output.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Christopher Rush < > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Are you using the default parameters for rpict/rtrace? Have you tried
setting the -dr parameter greater than 2? If you post the command you are
using to calculate the reflections, it may be easier to comment. I suspect
it will be more complicated than the -dr setting, but that's a start.

> I have been unsuccessful, so far, to generate more than two
reflections.

________________________________________________________
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systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses

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2

I believe this is what I have already done. I have tried to document my
efforts in the following shared folder in dropbox:

The folder has my ecotect file, Radiance files and few pages of PDF trying
to clarify my question. Any help will be much appreciated!

Shamim.

···

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:00 PM, shailan zareiy <[email protected]> wrote:

hi Shamim
do you assign the mirror surfaces as secondary light source? if you use
ecotect for modelling, in the material assignment of this software, in the
advanced export you should write this discription :
void mirror materail name
0
0
3 1 1 1
does it solve the problem?

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Compagnon Raphaël < > [email protected]> wrote:

If all these surfaces are mirrors, then you cannot see anything....
unless:
- there is a non-mirror reflecting object somewhere in your scene that is
supoposed to be lit by the multiple-reflecting light path; since it will
reflect light in many directions you should see it!
or
- your point of view is located somewhere on the multiple-reflecting
light path and your view direction points towards it. Then you should
directly see the light source appearing as an image on the last mirror.

Raphaël
________________________________
De : Shamim Javed [[email protected]]
Date d'envoi : lundi 11 mars 2013 15:56
À : Radiance general discussion
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Light Shelf Reflections

I am hoping to see multiple reflections of the light beam reflected off
the light shelf top surface in both the floor and the ceiling (all of which
are mirror surfaces).

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Shamim,

What changes are you expecting to see?

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated
www.visarc.com<http://www.visarc.com>

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 3/11/2013 10:03 AM, Shamim Javed wrote:
I am using Radiance via Ecotect. I have played around with changing the
values for -dr, -av and -ab without seeing any change in the image output.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Christopher Rush < >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Are you using the default parameters for rpict/rtrace? Have you tried
setting the -dr parameter greater than 2? If you post the command you are
using to calculate the reflections, it may be easier to comment. I suspect
it will be more complicated than the -dr setting, but that's a start.

> I have been unsuccessful, so far, to generate more than two
reflections.

________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
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[email protected]>
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3

Apologies for sending the wrong link. Here is one that should work!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/a8e7o5mugbluqdn/GVS1vZKjNC

Shamim.

···

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:00 PM, shailan zareiy <[email protected]> wrote:

hi Shamim
do you assign the mirror surfaces as secondary light source? if you use
ecotect for modelling, in the material assignment of this software, in the
advanced export you should write this discription :
void mirror materail name
0
0
3 1 1 1
does it solve the problem?

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Compagnon Raphaël < > [email protected]> wrote:

If all these surfaces are mirrors, then you cannot see anything....
unless:
- there is a non-mirror reflecting object somewhere in your scene that is
supoposed to be lit by the multiple-reflecting light path; since it will
reflect light in many directions you should see it!
or
- your point of view is located somewhere on the multiple-reflecting
light path and your view direction points towards it. Then you should
directly see the light source appearing as an image on the last mirror.

Raphaël
________________________________
De : Shamim Javed [[email protected]]
Date d'envoi : lundi 11 mars 2013 15:56
À : Radiance general discussion
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Light Shelf Reflections

I am hoping to see multiple reflections of the light beam reflected off
the light shelf top surface in both the floor and the ceiling (all of which
are mirror surfaces).

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Shamim,

What changes are you expecting to see?

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated
www.visarc.com<http://www.visarc.com>

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 3/11/2013 10:03 AM, Shamim Javed wrote:
I am using Radiance via Ecotect. I have played around with changing the
values for -dr, -av and -ab without seeing any change in the image output.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Christopher Rush < >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Are you using the default parameters for rpict/rtrace? Have you tried
setting the -dr parameter greater than 2? If you post the command you are
using to calculate the reflections, it may be easier to comment. I suspect
it will be more complicated than the -dr setting, but that's a start.

> I have been unsuccessful, so far, to generate more than two
reflections.

________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

4

Shamim,

Your ceiling surface normal is facing up (which matters for the mirror
type). Change polygon zone91.rad00770 to what is copied below.

Also make sure that you set -dr and -lr parameters to the number of mirror
reflections you want to have (8 or so?).

Let me know if you still don't see what you are expecting.

Best,
Andy

Morror_Ceiling polygon zone91.rad00770
0
0
15
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280

···

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]> wrote:

Apologies for sending the wrong link. Here is one that should work!

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Shamim.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:00 PM, shailan zareiy <[email protected]>wrote:

hi Shamim
do you assign the mirror surfaces as secondary light source? if you use
ecotect for modelling, in the material assignment of this software, in the
advanced export you should write this discription :
void mirror materail name
0
0
3 1 1 1
does it solve the problem?

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Compagnon Raphaël < >> [email protected]> wrote:

If all these surfaces are mirrors, then you cannot see anything....
unless:
- there is a non-mirror reflecting object somewhere in your scene that
is supoposed to be lit by the multiple-reflecting light path; since it will
reflect light in many directions you should see it!
or
- your point of view is located somewhere on the multiple-reflecting
light path and your view direction points towards it. Then you should
directly see the light source appearing as an image on the last mirror.

Raphaël
________________________________
De : Shamim Javed [[email protected]]
Date d'envoi : lundi 11 mars 2013 15:56
À : Radiance general discussion
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Light Shelf Reflections

I am hoping to see multiple reflections of the light beam reflected off
the light shelf top surface in both the floor and the ceiling (all of which
are mirror surfaces).

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Shamim,

What changes are you expecting to see?

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated
www.visarc.com<http://www.visarc.com>

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 3/11/2013 10:03 AM, Shamim Javed wrote:
I am using Radiance via Ecotect. I have played around with changing the
values for -dr, -av and -ab without seeing any change in the image output.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Christopher Rush < >>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Are you using the default parameters for rpict/rtrace? Have you tried
setting the -dr parameter greater than 2? If you post the command you are
using to calculate the reflections, it may be easier to comment. I suspect
it will be more complicated than the -dr setting, but that's a start.

> I have been unsuccessful, so far, to generate more than two
reflections.

________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
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http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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5

That was an aspect I had not thought about. Thanks for the tip! I went
back and fixed the surface normal's in my model. It did not, however,
create the reflections I am looking for.

···

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Shamim,

Your ceiling surface normal is facing up (which matters for the mirror
type). Change polygon zone91.rad00770 to what is copied below.

Also make sure that you set -dr and -lr parameters to the number of mirror
reflections you want to have (8 or so?).

Let me know if you still don't see what you are expecting.

Best,
Andy

Morror_Ceiling polygon zone91.rad00770
0
0
15
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

Apologies for sending the wrong link. Here is one that should work!

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Shamim.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:00 PM, shailan zareiy <[email protected]>wrote:

hi Shamim
do you assign the mirror surfaces as secondary light source? if you use
ecotect for modelling, in the material assignment of this software, in the
advanced export you should write this discription :
void mirror materail name
0
0
3 1 1 1
does it solve the problem?

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Compagnon Raphaël < >>> [email protected]> wrote:

If all these surfaces are mirrors, then you cannot see anything....
unless:
- there is a non-mirror reflecting object somewhere in your scene that
is supoposed to be lit by the multiple-reflecting light path; since it will
reflect light in many directions you should see it!
or
- your point of view is located somewhere on the multiple-reflecting
light path and your view direction points towards it. Then you should
directly see the light source appearing as an image on the last mirror.

Raphaël
________________________________
De : Shamim Javed [[email protected]]
Date d'envoi : lundi 11 mars 2013 15:56
À : Radiance general discussion
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Light Shelf Reflections

I am hoping to see multiple reflections of the light beam reflected off
the light shelf top surface in both the floor and the ceiling (all of which
are mirror surfaces).

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Shamim,

What changes are you expecting to see?

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated
www.visarc.com<http://www.visarc.com>

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 3/11/2013 10:03 AM, Shamim Javed wrote:
I am using Radiance via Ecotect. I have played around with changing
the values for -dr, -av and -ab without seeing any change in the image
output.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Christopher Rush < >>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Are you using the default parameters for rpict/rtrace? Have you tried
setting the -dr parameter greater than 2? If you post the command you are
using to calculate the reflections, it may be easier to comment. I suspect
it will be more complicated than the -dr setting, but that's a start.

> I have been unsuccessful, so far, to generate more than two
reflections.

________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

6

Are you expecting to see them in your rendering? This will not be the case
in the way that you set up your model. The light will not be visible on a
perfect mirror because all light is reflected in the mirror direction -
none to the view point. And all your walls are perfectly absorbing so you
won't see any light patterns on those either. Your view will only show
reflection of the perfectly black walls. The multiple reflections should
show up in your illuminance calcs though.

I suggest changing the walls to gray and changing the time of day to 11:45.
Then you should see reflection patterns along the west wall of your model.

Andy

···

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]> wrote:

That was an aspect I had not thought about. Thanks for the tip! I went
back and fixed the surface normal's in my model. It did not, however,
create the reflections I am looking for.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Shamim,

Your ceiling surface normal is facing up (which matters for the mirror
type). Change polygon zone91.rad00770 to what is copied below.

Also make sure that you set -dr and -lr parameters to the number of
mirror reflections you want to have (8 or so?).

Let me know if you still don't see what you are expecting.

Best,
Andy

Morror_Ceiling polygon zone91.rad00770
0
0
15
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

Apologies for sending the wrong link. Here is one that should work!

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Shamim.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:00 PM, shailan zareiy <[email protected]>wrote:

hi Shamim
do you assign the mirror surfaces as secondary light source? if you use
ecotect for modelling, in the material assignment of this software, in the
advanced export you should write this discription :
void mirror materail name
0
0
3 1 1 1
does it solve the problem?

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Compagnon Raphaël < >>>> [email protected]> wrote:

If all these surfaces are mirrors, then you cannot see anything....
unless:
- there is a non-mirror reflecting object somewhere in your scene that
is supoposed to be lit by the multiple-reflecting light path; since it will
reflect light in many directions you should see it!
or
- your point of view is located somewhere on the multiple-reflecting
light path and your view direction points towards it. Then you should
directly see the light source appearing as an image on the last mirror.

Raphaël
________________________________
De : Shamim Javed [[email protected]]
Date d'envoi : lundi 11 mars 2013 15:56
À : Radiance general discussion
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Light Shelf Reflections

I am hoping to see multiple reflections of the light beam reflected
off the light shelf top surface in both the floor and the ceiling (all of
which are mirror surfaces).

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Shamim,

What changes are you expecting to see?

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated
www.visarc.com<http://www.visarc.com>

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 3/11/2013 10:03 AM, Shamim Javed wrote:
I am using Radiance via Ecotect. I have played around with changing
the values for -dr, -av and -ab without seeing any change in the image
output.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Christopher Rush < >>>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Are you using the default parameters for rpict/rtrace? Have you tried
setting the -dr parameter greater than 2? If you post the command you are
using to calculate the reflections, it may be easier to comment. I suspect
it will be more complicated than the -dr setting, but that's a start.

> I have been unsuccessful, so far, to generate more than two
reflections.

________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
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[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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7

I tried the suggestions but could not get to the anticipated outcome. See
results:

Any other thoughts most welcome!

···

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Are you expecting to see them in your rendering? This will not be the
case in the way that you set up your model. The light will not be visible
on a perfect mirror because all light is reflected in the mirror direction
- none to the view point. And all your walls are perfectly absorbing so
you won't see any light patterns on those either. Your view will only show
reflection of the perfectly black walls. The multiple reflections should
show up in your illuminance calcs though.

I suggest changing the walls to gray and changing the time of day to
11:45. Then you should see reflection patterns along the west wall of your
model.

Andy

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

That was an aspect I had not thought about. Thanks for the tip! I went
back and fixed the surface normal's in my model. It did not, however,
create the reflections I am looking for.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Shamim,

Your ceiling surface normal is facing up (which matters for the mirror
type). Change polygon zone91.rad00770 to what is copied below.

Also make sure that you set -dr and -lr parameters to the number of
mirror reflections you want to have (8 or so?).

Let me know if you still don't see what you are expecting.

Best,
Andy

Morror_Ceiling polygon zone91.rad00770
0
0
15
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

Apologies for sending the wrong link. Here is one that should work!

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Shamim.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:00 PM, shailan zareiy <[email protected]>wrote:

hi Shamim
do you assign the mirror surfaces as secondary light source? if you
use ecotect for modelling, in the material assignment of this software, in
the advanced export you should write this discription :
void mirror materail name
0
0
3 1 1 1
does it solve the problem?

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Compagnon Raphaël < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote:

If all these surfaces are mirrors, then you cannot see anything....
unless:
- there is a non-mirror reflecting object somewhere in your scene
that is supoposed to be lit by the multiple-reflecting light path; since it
will reflect light in many directions you should see it!
or
- your point of view is located somewhere on the multiple-reflecting
light path and your view direction points towards it. Then you should
directly see the light source appearing as an image on the last mirror.

Raphaël
________________________________
De : Shamim Javed [[email protected]]
Date d'envoi : lundi 11 mars 2013 15:56
À : Radiance general discussion
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Light Shelf Reflections

I am hoping to see multiple reflections of the light beam reflected
off the light shelf top surface in both the floor and the ceiling (all of
which are mirror surfaces).

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Shamim,

What changes are you expecting to see?

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated
www.visarc.com<http://www.visarc.com>

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 3/11/2013 10:03 AM, Shamim Javed wrote:
I am using Radiance via Ecotect. I have played around with changing
the values for -dr, -av and -ab without seeing any change in the image
output.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Christopher Rush < >>>>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Are you using the default parameters for rpict/rtrace? Have you tried
setting the -dr parameter greater than 2? If you post the command you are
using to calculate the reflections, it may be easier to comment. I suspect
it will be more complicated than the -dr setting, but that's a start.

> I have been unsuccessful, so far, to generate more than two
reflections.

________________________________________________________
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systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses

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8

My result is much different. With gray walls, perfect mirror floor and
ceiling and using a time of 11.75 for the sky my rendering looks like this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16523492/test.tif
(cool infinity box effect!)

Here is the model that I use (which is just your model modified as I had
suggested):
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16523492/Test.zip

And these are the commands I use:
oconv mirror_s.rad mirror_s_sky.rad > test.oct

rvu -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1 -vh 180
-vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dr 20 -lr 20 -ps 1 -ab 3 test.oct

maybe you can spot the difference between what I'm doing and what you're
doing?

Andy

···

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]> wrote:

I tried the suggestions but could not get to the anticipated outcome. See
results:

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Any other thoughts most welcome!

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Are you expecting to see them in your rendering? This will not be the
case in the way that you set up your model. The light will not be visible
on a perfect mirror because all light is reflected in the mirror direction
- none to the view point. And all your walls are perfectly absorbing so
you won't see any light patterns on those either. Your view will only show
reflection of the perfectly black walls. The multiple reflections should
show up in your illuminance calcs though.

I suggest changing the walls to gray and changing the time of day to
11:45. Then you should see reflection patterns along the west wall of your
model.

Andy

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

That was an aspect I had not thought about. Thanks for the tip! I went
back and fixed the surface normal's in my model. It did not, however,
create the reflections I am looking for.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Shamim,

Your ceiling surface normal is facing up (which matters for the mirror
type). Change polygon zone91.rad00770 to what is copied below.

Also make sure that you set -dr and -lr parameters to the number of
mirror reflections you want to have (8 or so?).

Let me know if you still don't see what you are expecting.

Best,
Andy

Morror_Ceiling polygon zone91.rad00770
0
0
15
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

Apologies for sending the wrong link. Here is one that should work!

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Shamim.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:00 PM, shailan zareiy <[email protected]>wrote:

hi Shamim
do you assign the mirror surfaces as secondary light source? if you
use ecotect for modelling, in the material assignment of this software, in
the advanced export you should write this discription :
void mirror materail name
0
0
3 1 1 1
does it solve the problem?

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Compagnon Raphaël < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:

If all these surfaces are mirrors, then you cannot see anything....
unless:
- there is a non-mirror reflecting object somewhere in your scene
that is supoposed to be lit by the multiple-reflecting light path; since it
will reflect light in many directions you should see it!
or
- your point of view is located somewhere on the multiple-reflecting
light path and your view direction points towards it. Then you should
directly see the light source appearing as an image on the last mirror.

Raphaël
________________________________
De : Shamim Javed [[email protected]]
Date d'envoi : lundi 11 mars 2013 15:56
À : Radiance general discussion
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Light Shelf Reflections

I am hoping to see multiple reflections of the light beam reflected
off the light shelf top surface in both the floor and the ceiling (all of
which are mirror surfaces).

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Shamim,

What changes are you expecting to see?

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated
www.visarc.com<http://www.visarc.com>

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 3/11/2013 10:03 AM, Shamim Javed wrote:
I am using Radiance via Ecotect. I have played around with changing
the values for -dr, -av and -ab without seeing any change in the image
output.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Christopher Rush < >>>>>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Are you using the default parameters for rpict/rtrace? Have you
tried setting the -dr parameter greater than 2? If you post the command you
are using to calculate the reflections, it may be easier to comment. I
suspect it will be more complicated than the -dr setting, but that's a
start.

> I have been unsuccessful, so far, to generate more than two
reflections.

________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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9

That is wonderful! Yes, I will look into the difference between mine and
yours. I am also planning to make a physical model today to test it out in
real daylight. More soon...

···

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

My result is much different. With gray walls, perfect mirror floor and
ceiling and using a time of 11.75 for the sky my rendering looks like this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16523492/test.tif
(cool infinity box effect!)

Here is the model that I use (which is just your model modified as I had
suggested):
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16523492/Test.zip

And these are the commands I use:
oconv mirror_s.rad mirror_s_sky.rad > test.oct

rvu -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1 -vh 180
-vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dr 20 -lr 20 -ps 1 -ab 3 test.oct

maybe you can spot the difference between what I'm doing and what you're
doing?

Andy

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

I tried the suggestions but could not get to the anticipated outcome.
See results:

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Any other thoughts most welcome!

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Are you expecting to see them in your rendering? This will not be the
case in the way that you set up your model. The light will not be visible
on a perfect mirror because all light is reflected in the mirror direction
- none to the view point. And all your walls are perfectly absorbing so
you won't see any light patterns on those either. Your view will only show
reflection of the perfectly black walls. The multiple reflections should
show up in your illuminance calcs though.

I suggest changing the walls to gray and changing the time of day to
11:45. Then you should see reflection patterns along the west wall of your
model.

Andy

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

That was an aspect I had not thought about. Thanks for the tip! I
went back and fixed the surface normal's in my model. It did not, however,
create the reflections I am looking for.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Shamim,

Your ceiling surface normal is facing up (which matters for the mirror
type). Change polygon zone91.rad00770 to what is copied below.

Also make sure that you set -dr and -lr parameters to the number of
mirror reflections you want to have (8 or so?).

Let me know if you still don't see what you are expecting.

Best,
Andy

Morror_Ceiling polygon zone91.rad00770
0
0
15
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

Apologies for sending the wrong link. Here is one that should work!

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Shamim.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:00 PM, shailan zareiy <[email protected]>wrote:

hi Shamim
do you assign the mirror surfaces as secondary light source? if you
use ecotect for modelling, in the material assignment of this software, in
the advanced export you should write this discription :
void mirror materail name
0
0
3 1 1 1
does it solve the problem?

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Compagnon Raphaël < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:

If all these surfaces are mirrors, then you cannot see anything....
unless:
- there is a non-mirror reflecting object somewhere in your scene
that is supoposed to be lit by the multiple-reflecting light path; since it
will reflect light in many directions you should see it!
or
- your point of view is located somewhere on the
multiple-reflecting light path and your view direction points towards it.
Then you should directly see the light source appearing as an image on the
last mirror.

Raphaël
________________________________
De : Shamim Javed [[email protected]]
Date d'envoi : lundi 11 mars 2013 15:56
À : Radiance general discussion
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Light Shelf Reflections

I am hoping to see multiple reflections of the light beam reflected
off the light shelf top surface in both the floor and the ceiling (all of
which are mirror surfaces).

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Shamim,

What changes are you expecting to see?

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated
www.visarc.com<http://www.visarc.com>

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 3/11/2013 10:03 AM, Shamim Javed wrote:
I am using Radiance via Ecotect. I have played around with
changing the values for -dr, -av and -ab without seeing any change in the
image output.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Christopher Rush < >>>>>>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Are you using the default parameters for rpict/rtrace? Have you
tried setting the -dr parameter greater than 2? If you post the command you
are using to calculate the reflections, it may be easier to comment. I
suspect it will be more complicated than the -dr setting, but that's a
start.

> I have been unsuccessful, so far, to generate more than two
reflections.

________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
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[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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[email protected]>
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10

Andy,

Pictures from my model:

They do validate your simulation results.

I tried to replicate your simulation image (using Radiance via Ecotect) but
without success so far. I used the Radiance Control Panel in Ecotect
to insert the values you had used for your simulation but continue to get
my previous picture. How long did your image take to generate?

Shamim.

···

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

My result is much different. With gray walls, perfect mirror floor and
ceiling and using a time of 11.75 for the sky my rendering looks like this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16523492/test.tif
(cool infinity box effect!)

Here is the model that I use (which is just your model modified as I had
suggested):
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16523492/Test.zip

And these are the commands I use:
oconv mirror_s.rad mirror_s_sky.rad > test.oct

rvu -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1 -vh 180
-vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dr 20 -lr 20 -ps 1 -ab 3 test.oct

maybe you can spot the difference between what I'm doing and what you're
doing?

Andy

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

I tried the suggestions but could not get to the anticipated outcome.
See results:

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Any other thoughts most welcome!

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Are you expecting to see them in your rendering? This will not be the
case in the way that you set up your model. The light will not be visible
on a perfect mirror because all light is reflected in the mirror direction
- none to the view point. And all your walls are perfectly absorbing so
you won't see any light patterns on those either. Your view will only show
reflection of the perfectly black walls. The multiple reflections should
show up in your illuminance calcs though.

I suggest changing the walls to gray and changing the time of day to
11:45. Then you should see reflection patterns along the west wall of your
model.

Andy

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

That was an aspect I had not thought about. Thanks for the tip! I
went back and fixed the surface normal's in my model. It did not, however,
create the reflections I am looking for.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Shamim,

Your ceiling surface normal is facing up (which matters for the mirror
type). Change polygon zone91.rad00770 to what is copied below.

Also make sure that you set -dr and -lr parameters to the number of
mirror reflections you want to have (8 or so?).

Let me know if you still don't see what you are expecting.

Best,
Andy

Morror_Ceiling polygon zone91.rad00770
0
0
15
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

Apologies for sending the wrong link. Here is one that should work!

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Shamim.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:00 PM, shailan zareiy <[email protected]>wrote:

hi Shamim
do you assign the mirror surfaces as secondary light source? if you
use ecotect for modelling, in the material assignment of this software, in
the advanced export you should write this discription :
void mirror materail name
0
0
3 1 1 1
does it solve the problem?

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Compagnon Raphaël < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:

If all these surfaces are mirrors, then you cannot see anything....
unless:
- there is a non-mirror reflecting object somewhere in your scene
that is supoposed to be lit by the multiple-reflecting light path; since it
will reflect light in many directions you should see it!
or
- your point of view is located somewhere on the
multiple-reflecting light path and your view direction points towards it.
Then you should directly see the light source appearing as an image on the
last mirror.

Raphaël
________________________________
De : Shamim Javed [[email protected]]
Date d'envoi : lundi 11 mars 2013 15:56
À : Radiance general discussion
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Light Shelf Reflections

I am hoping to see multiple reflections of the light beam reflected
off the light shelf top surface in both the floor and the ceiling (all of
which are mirror surfaces).

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Shamim,

What changes are you expecting to see?

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated
www.visarc.com<http://www.visarc.com>

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 3/11/2013 10:03 AM, Shamim Javed wrote:
I am using Radiance via Ecotect. I have played around with
changing the values for -dr, -av and -ab without seeing any change in the
image output.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Christopher Rush < >>>>>>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Are you using the default parameters for rpict/rtrace? Have you
tried setting the -dr parameter greater than 2? If you post the command you
are using to calculate the reflections, it may be easier to comment. I
suspect it will be more complicated than the -dr setting, but that's a
start.

> I have been unsuccessful, so far, to generate more than two
reflections.

________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:
[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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11

My guess is that the issue is related to Ecotect. Does ecotect export a
bat file that you can modify and run outside of ecotect?

Andy

···

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:17 AM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]> wrote:

Andy,

Pictures from my model:
Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life
They do validate your simulation results.

I tried to replicate your simulation image (using Radiance via Ecotect)
but without success so far. I used the Radiance Control Panel in Ecotect
to insert the values you had used for your simulation but continue to get
my previous picture. How long did your image take to generate?

Shamim.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:10 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

My result is much different. With gray walls, perfect mirror floor and
ceiling and using a time of 11.75 for the sky my rendering looks like this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16523492/test.tif
(cool infinity box effect!)

Here is the model that I use (which is just your model modified as I had
suggested):
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16523492/Test.zip

And these are the commands I use:
oconv mirror_s.rad mirror_s_sky.rad > test.oct

rvu -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1 -vh 180
-vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dr 20 -lr 20 -ps 1 -ab 3 test.oct

maybe you can spot the difference between what I'm doing and what you're
doing?

Andy

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

I tried the suggestions but could not get to the anticipated outcome.
See results:

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Any other thoughts most welcome!

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Are you expecting to see them in your rendering? This will not be the
case in the way that you set up your model. The light will not be visible
on a perfect mirror because all light is reflected in the mirror direction
- none to the view point. And all your walls are perfectly absorbing so
you won't see any light patterns on those either. Your view will only show
reflection of the perfectly black walls. The multiple reflections should
show up in your illuminance calcs though.

I suggest changing the walls to gray and changing the time of day to
11:45. Then you should see reflection patterns along the west wall of your
model.

Andy

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

That was an aspect I had not thought about. Thanks for the tip! I
went back and fixed the surface normal's in my model. It did not, however,
create the reflections I am looking for.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]>wrote:

Shamim,

Your ceiling surface normal is facing up (which matters for the
mirror type). Change polygon zone91.rad00770 to what is copied below.

Also make sure that you set -dr and -lr parameters to the number of
mirror reflections you want to have (8 or so?).

Let me know if you still don't see what you are expecting.

Best,
Andy

Morror_Ceiling polygon zone91.rad00770
0
0
15
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 21.18360 7.16280
  10.36320 2.89560 7.16280
  1.21920 2.89560 7.16280

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

Apologies for sending the wrong link. Here is one that should work!

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

Shamim.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 1:00 PM, shailan zareiy <[email protected] >>>>>>> > wrote:

hi Shamim
do you assign the mirror surfaces as secondary light source? if you
use ecotect for modelling, in the material assignment of this software, in
the advanced export you should write this discription :
void mirror materail name
0
0
3 1 1 1
does it solve the problem?

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Compagnon Raphaël < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:

If all these surfaces are mirrors, then you cannot see
anything.... unless:
- there is a non-mirror reflecting object somewhere in your scene
that is supoposed to be lit by the multiple-reflecting light path; since it
will reflect light in many directions you should see it!
or
- your point of view is located somewhere on the
multiple-reflecting light path and your view direction points towards it.
Then you should directly see the light source appearing as an image on the
last mirror.

Raphaël
________________________________
De : Shamim Javed [[email protected]]
Date d'envoi : lundi 11 mars 2013 15:56
À : Radiance general discussion
Objet : Re: [Radiance-general] Light Shelf Reflections

I am hoping to see multiple reflections of the light beam
reflected off the light shelf top surface in both the floor and the ceiling
(all of which are mirror surfaces).

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Jack de Valpine < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Shamim,

What changes are you expecting to see?

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated
www.visarc.com<http://www.visarc.com>

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 3/11/2013 10:03 AM, Shamim Javed wrote:
I am using Radiance via Ecotect. I have played around with
changing the values for -dr, -av and -ab without seeing any change in the
image output.

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Christopher Rush < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
Are you using the default parameters for rpict/rtrace? Have you
tried setting the -dr parameter greater than 2? If you post the command you
are using to calculate the reflections, it may be easier to comment. I
suspect it will be more complicated than the -dr setting, but that's a
start.

> I have been unsuccessful, so far, to generate more than two
reflections.

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12

Where did you get your copy of Radiance? Do you know what version it is?

If not, "getinfo foo.hdr" will identify the version of Radiance that generated foo.hdr.

Randolph

···

On 2013-03-15 15:17:59 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I tried to replicate your simulation image (using Radiance via Ecotect) but without success so far.

13

I looked at the files generated by Radiance via Ecotect and it looks like
the version of Radiance it is using is 3.1.8. Here is a copy of one of the
files generated:

"#?RADIANCE

oconv mirror_scorrected_sky.rad mirror_scorrected.rad
rpict -t 120 -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1
-vh 180 -vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dp 1024 -ar 45 -ms 0.17 -ds .3 -dt .1 -dc .5
-dr 1 -sj .7 -st .1 -ab 4 -af RCP.amb -aa .2 -ad 400 -as 64 -av 0.01 0.01
0.01 -lr 6 -lw .002 -i -x 64 -y 64 -ps 1
SOFTWARE= RADIANCE 3.1.8 lastmod Thu Sep 17 20:49:56 PDT 1998 by droberts
on escher"

···

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) < [email protected]> wrote:

On 2013-03-15 15:17:59 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I tried to replicate your simulation image (using Radiance via Ecotect)

but without success so far.

Where did you get your copy of Radiance? Do you know what version it is?

If not, "getinfo foo.hdr" will identify the version of Radiance that
generated foo.hdr.

Randolph

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14

It looks like the changes you make to -dr and -lr are not being passed to
Radiance.
I recommend running radiance yourself from the dos prompt. You many need
to install Radiance first (I'm not sure if ecotect's version of Radiance is
set up to be used from the command line). Best bet is to use the NREL
installer (
https://openstudio.nrel.gov/getting-started-developer/getting-started-radiance
)

After you install Radiance, start the dos shell and change directory to the
location of the model files. Then enter the following commands:

oconv mirror_scorrected_sky.rad mirror_scorrected.rad >
mirror_socorrected.oct
rpict -t 120 -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1
-vh 180 -vv 180 -lr 15 -dr 15 -i -ps 1 mirror_socorrected.oct >
mirror_socorrected.hdr
ra_tiff -z mirror_socorrected.hdr mirror_socorrected.tif

Andy

···

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]> wrote:

I looked at the files generated by Radiance via Ecotect and it looks like
the version of Radiance it is using is 3.1.8. Here is a copy of one of the
files generated:

"#?RADIANCE

oconv mirror_scorrected_sky.rad mirror_scorrected.rad
rpict -t 120 -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1
-vh 180 -vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dp 1024 -ar 45 -ms 0.17 -ds .3 -dt .1 -dc .5
-dr 1 -sj .7 -st .1 -ab 4 -af RCP.amb -aa .2 -ad 400 -as 64 -av 0.01 0.01
0.01 -lr 6 -lw .002 -i -x 64 -y 64 -ps 1
SOFTWARE= RADIANCE 3.1.8 lastmod Thu Sep 17 20:49:56 PDT 1998 by droberts
on escher"

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) < > [email protected]> wrote:

On 2013-03-15 15:17:59 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I tried to replicate your simulation image (using Radiance via Ecotect)

but without success so far.

Where did you get your copy of Radiance? Do you know what version it is?

If not, "getinfo foo.hdr" will identify the version of Radiance that
generated foo.hdr.

Randolph

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15

Looks like the -dr and -lr values (both 20, in your 1st attempt)
*are*being passed on to radiance via Ecotect without giving me the
desired
results. See circled values in the image:

I am going to try the dos prompt suggestion next.

Shamim.

···

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

It looks like the changes you make to -dr and -lr are not being passed to
Radiance.
I recommend running radiance yourself from the dos prompt. You many need
to install Radiance first (I'm not sure if ecotect's version of Radiance is
set up to be used from the command line). Best bet is to use the NREL
installer (
OpenStudio
)

After you install Radiance, start the dos shell and change directory to
the location of the model files. Then enter the following commands:

oconv mirror_scorrected_sky.rad mirror_scorrected.rad >
mirror_socorrected.oct
rpict -t 120 -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1
-vh 180 -vv 180 -lr 15 -dr 15 -i -ps 1 mirror_socorrected.oct >
mirror_socorrected.hdr
ra_tiff -z mirror_socorrected.hdr mirror_socorrected.tif

Andy

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Shamim Javed <[email protected]>wrote:

I looked at the files generated by Radiance via Ecotect and it looks like
the version of Radiance it is using is 3.1.8. Here is a copy of one of the
files generated:

"#?RADIANCE

oconv mirror_scorrected_sky.rad mirror_scorrected.rad
rpict -t 120 -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1
-vh 180 -vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dp 1024 -ar 45 -ms 0.17 -ds .3 -dt .1 -dc .5
-dr 1 -sj .7 -st .1 -ab 4 -af RCP.amb -aa .2 -ad 400 -as 64 -av 0.01 0.01
0.01 -lr 6 -lw .002 -i -x 64 -y 64 -ps 1
SOFTWARE= RADIANCE 3.1.8 lastmod Thu Sep 17 20:49:56 PDT 1998 by droberts
on escher"

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) < >> [email protected]> wrote:

On 2013-03-15 15:17:59 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I tried to replicate your simulation image (using Radiance via Ecotect)

but without success so far.

Where did you get your copy of Radiance? Do you know what version it is?

If not, "getinfo foo.hdr" will identify the version of Radiance that
generated foo.hdr.

Randolph

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16

1998 is pretty old--it's possible we're giving you advice for newer versions.

NREL has a newer release of Radiance for Windows. I'm pretty sure you can hook it up with Ecotect, but I'm not sure exactly how. Anyone done this?

Randolph

···

On 2013-03-15 20:19:41 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I looked at the files generated by Radiance via Ecotect and it looks like the version of Radiance it is using is 3.1.8. Here is a copy of one of the files generated:

"#?RADIANCE
oconv mirror_scorrected_sky.rad mirror_scorrected.rad
rpict -t 120 -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1 -vh 180 -vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dp 1024 -ar 45 -ms 0.17 -ds .3 -dt .1 -dc .5 -dr 1 -sj .7 -st .1 -ab 4 -af RCP.amb -aa .2 -ad 400 -as 64 -av 0.01 0.01 0.01 -lr 6 -lw .002 -i -x 64 -y 64 -ps 1
SOFTWARE= RADIANCE 3.1.8 lastmod Thu Sep 17 20:49:56 PDT 1998 by droberts on escher"

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) > <[email protected]> wrote:
On 2013-03-15 15:17:59 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I tried to replicate your simulation image (using Radiance via Ecotect) but without success so far.

Where did you get your copy of Radiance? Do you know what version it is?

If not, "getinfo foo.hdr" will identify the version of Radiance that generated foo.hdr.

Randolph

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http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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[email protected]
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--
Randolph M. Fritz

17

As far as I can remember there are two changes that you should apply in the
.bat file generated by ECOTECT:

1. change -sj to -ss [in the rtrace line]
2. change rview to rvu

Mostapha

···

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 5:45 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) < [email protected]> wrote:

1998 is pretty old--it's possible we're giving you advice for newer
versions.

NREL has a newer release of Radiance for Windows. I'm pretty sure you can
hook it up with Ecotect, but I'm not sure exactly how. Anyone done this?

Randolph

On 2013-03-15 20:19:41 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I looked at the files generated by Radiance via Ecotect and it looks like

the version of Radiance it is using is 3.1.8. Here is a copy of one of the
files generated:

"#?RADIANCE
oconv mirror_scorrected_sky.rad mirror_scorrected.rad
rpict -t 120 -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1
-vh 180 -vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dp 1024 -ar 45 -ms 0.17 -ds .3 -dt .1 -dc .5
-dr 1 -sj .7 -st .1 -ab 4 -af RCP.amb -aa .2 -ad 400 -as 64 -av 0.01 0.01
0.01 -lr 6 -lw .002 -i -x 64 -y 64 -ps 1
SOFTWARE= RADIANCE 3.1.8 lastmod Thu Sep 17 20:49:56 PDT 1998 by droberts
on escher"

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) < >> [email protected]> wrote:
On 2013-03-15 15:17:59 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I tried to replicate your simulation image (using Radiance via Ecotect)
but without success so far.

Where did you get your copy of Radiance? Do you know what version it is?

If not, "getinfo foo.hdr" will identify the version of Radiance that
generated foo.hdr.

Randolph

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.**org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-**general<http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general&gt;

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<[email protected]>
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--
Randolph M. Fritz

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.**org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-**general<http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general&gt;

18

Shaim,
Can you try typing the commands I sent directly at the dos prompt?
That would tell us if it is a problem with the outdated version of Radiance
you are using or if it is a problem with the Ecotect Radiance Control
Panel. I still think it is a problem with the latter as the commands
settings didn't get into the header created by Radiance.

I'd rather determine if Ecotect related software is the cause now, rather
than going further assuming that it is Radiance (which I doubt, but I am
biased).

Andy

···

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) < [email protected]> wrote:

1998 is pretty old--it's possible we're giving you advice for newer
versions.

NREL has a newer release of Radiance for Windows. I'm pretty sure you can
hook it up with Ecotect, but I'm not sure exactly how. Anyone done this?

Randolph

On 2013-03-15 20:19:41 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I looked at the files generated by Radiance via Ecotect and it looks like

the version of Radiance it is using is 3.1.8. Here is a copy of one of the
files generated:

"#?RADIANCE
oconv mirror_scorrected_sky.rad mirror_scorrected.rad
rpict -t 120 -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0 1
-vh 180 -vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dp 1024 -ar 45 -ms 0.17 -ds .3 -dt .1 -dc .5
-dr 1 -sj .7 -st .1 -ab 4 -af RCP.amb -aa .2 -ad 400 -as 64 -av 0.01 0.01
0.01 -lr 6 -lw .002 -i -x 64 -y 64 -ps 1
SOFTWARE= RADIANCE 3.1.8 lastmod Thu Sep 17 20:49:56 PDT 1998 by droberts
on escher"

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) < >> [email protected]> wrote:
On 2013-03-15 15:17:59 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I tried to replicate your simulation image (using Radiance via Ecotect)
but without success so far.

Where did you get your copy of Radiance? Do you know what version it is?

If not, "getinfo foo.hdr" will identify the version of Radiance that
generated foo.hdr.

Randolph

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.**org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-**general<http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general&gt;

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
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http://www.radiance-online.**org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-**general<http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general&gt;

--
Randolph M. Fritz

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<[email protected]>
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19

one more thing - can you double check that the ceiling surface normal is
still facing downward (and that you didn't re-export geometry from
ecotect). It seems odd that there is one reflection of the the floor but
none off the ceiling (the light that gets to the floor comes straight
through the window and misses the light shelf). There should be the same
number of reflections from both.

Andy

···

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Shaim,
Can you try typing the commands I sent directly at the dos prompt?
That would tell us if it is a problem with the outdated version of
Radiance you are using or if it is a problem with the Ecotect Radiance
Control Panel. I still think it is a problem with the latter as the
commands settings didn't get into the header created by Radiance.

I'd rather determine if Ecotect related software is the cause now, rather
than going further assuming that it is Radiance (which I doubt, but I am
biased).

Andy

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) < > [email protected]> wrote:

1998 is pretty old--it's possible we're giving you advice for newer
versions.

NREL has a newer release of Radiance for Windows. I'm pretty sure you can
hook it up with Ecotect, but I'm not sure exactly how. Anyone done this?

Randolph

On 2013-03-15 20:19:41 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I looked at the files generated by Radiance via Ecotect and it looks

like the version of Radiance it is using is 3.1.8. Here is a copy of one
of the files generated:

"#?RADIANCE
oconv mirror_scorrected_sky.rad mirror_scorrected.rad
rpict -t 120 -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0
1 -vh 180 -vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dp 1024 -ar 45 -ms 0.17 -ds .3 -dt .1 -dc .5
-dr 1 -sj .7 -st .1 -ab 4 -af RCP.amb -aa .2 -ad 400 -as 64 -av 0.01 0.01
0.01 -lr 6 -lw .002 -i -x 64 -y 64 -ps 1
SOFTWARE= RADIANCE 3.1.8 lastmod Thu Sep 17 20:49:56 PDT 1998 by
droberts on escher"

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) < >>> [email protected]> wrote:
On 2013-03-15 15:17:59 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I tried to replicate your simulation image (using Radiance via Ecotect)
but without success so far.

Where did you get your copy of Radiance? Do you know what version it is?

If not, "getinfo foo.hdr" will identify the version of Radiance that
generated foo.hdr.

Randolph

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.**org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-**general<http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general&gt;

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.**org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-**general<http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general&gt;

--
Randolph M. Fritz

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<[email protected]>
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20

Please see the following:

I have tried to document my steps... no success as yet. Will keep
trying...

Shamim.

···

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Shaim,
Can you try typing the commands I sent directly at the dos prompt?
That would tell us if it is a problem with the outdated version of
Radiance you are using or if it is a problem with the Ecotect Radiance
Control Panel. I still think it is a problem with the latter as the
commands settings didn't get into the header created by Radiance.

I'd rather determine if Ecotect related software is the cause now, rather
than going further assuming that it is Radiance (which I doubt, but I am
biased).

Andy

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) < > [email protected]> wrote:

1998 is pretty old--it's possible we're giving you advice for newer
versions.

NREL has a newer release of Radiance for Windows. I'm pretty sure you can
hook it up with Ecotect, but I'm not sure exactly how. Anyone done this?

Randolph

On 2013-03-15 20:19:41 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I looked at the files generated by Radiance via Ecotect and it looks

like the version of Radiance it is using is 3.1.8. Here is a copy of one
of the files generated:

"#?RADIANCE
oconv mirror_scorrected_sky.rad mirror_scorrected.rad
rpict -t 120 -vth -vp 9.628 4.564 6.510 -vd -1.701 0.360 -0.007 -vu 0 0
1 -vh 180 -vv 180 -vs 0 -vl 0 -dp 1024 -ar 45 -ms 0.17 -ds .3 -dt .1 -dc .5
-dr 1 -sj .7 -st .1 -ab 4 -af RCP.amb -aa .2 -ad 400 -as 64 -av 0.01 0.01
0.01 -lr 6 -lw .002 -i -x 64 -y 64 -ps 1
SOFTWARE= RADIANCE 3.1.8 lastmod Thu Sep 17 20:49:56 PDT 1998 by
droberts on escher"

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Randolph M. Fritz (i) < >>> [email protected]> wrote:
On 2013-03-15 15:17:59 +0000, Shamim Javed said:

I tried to replicate your simulation image (using Radiance via Ecotect)
but without success so far.

Where did you get your copy of Radiance? Do you know what version it is?

If not, "getinfo foo.hdr" will identify the version of Radiance that
generated foo.hdr.

Randolph

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<[email protected]>
http://www.radiance-online.**org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-**general<http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general&gt;

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
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http://www.radiance-online.**org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-**general<http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general&gt;

--
Randolph M. Fritz

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<[email protected]>
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