Radiance-general Digest, Vol 82, Issue 14

Howdy all!

Did anybody happen to try COMFEN (
http://windows.lbl.gov/software/comfen/comfen.html)?
It's a simulation program for only windows and lighting. I just saw it and
wanted to use it.
If anybody can put some good/bad words for this program, that would be
awesome.

Thanks!
Aru

···

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:59 AM, < [email protected]> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: glaze script limitation (Lars O. Grobe)
  2. Re: glaze script limitation (Achim.geissler)
  3. Re: glaze script limitation (Jack de Valpine)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:42:49 +0100
From: "Lars O. Grobe" <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] glaze script limitation
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Hi all!

> The trouble is one of combinatorics. Unless we incorporate a
> database containing all the possible front and back coating
> combinations, or a model like Optics has for computing the combined
> effect, we can't produce the correct output. What we really need is
> a more general glazing modeler that can account for every possible
> configuration and produces a reliable Radiance material. Maybe
> Window6 will provide this at some point, but we aren't there, yet.

A related question... is anyone aware of tools compareable to Optics and
Window that follow a more open approach of software? I have to boot into
a Windows installation (and Windows does not easily boot in virtual
machines any more since Vista) each time I want to start one of these
tools, which even require administrator rights to install on a Windows
machine. Unfortunately it looks as no attempt had been made at all
during development to separate the database, calculation and
GUI/controller code, so I do not expect these tools to become more open
or platform independent. So did you ever come accross any development in
these fields?

Cheers, Lars.

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:43:18 +0100
From: "Achim.geissler" <[email protected]>
To: Radiancegeneraldiscussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] glaze script limitation
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dear Lars

one tool that may possibly be a bit more open is WIS. In any case, off and
on there is an error message from a "solver". However, I have no idea if
the
code would be accessible. WIS originated from a european project and so the
code may be available to people affiliated to european research institutes.

Best
Achim

--------- Original-Nachricht --------
Von: "Radiance general discussion"
An: "Radiance general discussion"
Betreff: Re: [Radiance-general] glaze script limitation
Datum: 15/12/10 13:15

Hi all!

> The trouble is one of combinatorics. Unless we incorporate a
> database containing all the possible front and back coating
> combinations, or a model like Optics has for computing the combined
> effect, we can&#39;t produce the correct output. What we really need is
> a more general glazing modeler that can account for every possible
> configuration and produces a reliable Radiance material. Maybe
> Window6 will provide this at some point, but we aren&#39;t there, yet.

A related question... is anyone aware of tools compareable to Optics and
Window that follow a more open approach of software? I have to boot into
a Windows installation (and Windows does not easily boot in virtual
machines any more since Vista) each time I want to start one of these
tools, which even require administrator rights to install on a Windows
machine. Unfortunately it looks as no attempt had been made at all
during development to separate the database, calculation and
GUI/controller code, so I do not expect these tools to become more open
or platform independent. So did you ever come accross any development in
these fields?

Cheers, Lars.

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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:59:35 -0500
From: Jack de Valpine <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] glaze script limitation
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Hi Francois,

As Greg pointed out, using different clear glass specifications for each
layer would really complicate things. Note the "clear" glass
specification is really to establish a default reflectance and
transmittance for the uncoated faced in the system. Color, Rf, Rb and
Transmittance are derived from the other specifications (eg for SunGuard
Ag 43 or SunGuard SN 62) in this case. Have you tried defining a
material based on the exported data from Optics?

Here is what I did:

Export individually from Optics:

SGAG43Y6.grd (3156)
SGSN62C6.grd (3116)
Clear_60.GRD (3016)

Then get photopic T, Rf and Rb for reference from Optics 5 for the whole
IGU:

   Rf = .178
   Rb = .107
   T = .228

Note that the script (optics2glazedb) is very strict on formatting. So
the naming in Clear_60.rad:

   Clear_60_glass
   Clear_60_front
   Clear_60_back

needs to have the first "_" removed to result in:

   Clear60_glass
   Clear60_front
   Clear60_back

I suppose this could easily enough be fixed with a call to awk or perl
to fix this type of thing on the fly.

Now with Clear_60 fixed do:

   optics2glazedb Clear_60.rad SGAG43Y6.rad SGSN62C6.rad > francois.db

Now run glaze:

   glaze -f francois.db

   build a 2 pane system as follows:

      1. Clear60
      2. SGAG43Y6
      3. SGSN62C6
      4. Clear60

This results in the following definition:

   ############################################
   # Glazing produced by Radiance glaze script
   # $Revision: 2.8 $
   # Loaded: francois.db
   # Wed Dec 15 11:14:23 EST 2010
   # Material surface normal points to interior
   # Number of panes in system: 2
   # Exterior surface s1 type: Clear60
   # Inner surface s2 type: SGAG43Y6
   # Inner surface s3 type: SGSN62C6
   # Interior surface s4 type: Clear60
   # Exterior normal hemispherical reflectance: 0.177978104
   # Interior normal hemispherical reflectance: 0.108662425
   # Normal hemispherical transmittance: 0.225458181
   #
   void BRTDfunc francois
   10

if(Rdot,cr(fr(0.052),ft(0.664),fr(0.083)),cr(fr(0.145),ft(0.295),fr(0.036)))

if(Rdot,cr(fr(0.076),ft(0.708),fr(0.067)),cr(fr(0.177),ft(0.339),fr(0.076)))

if(Rdot,cr(fr(0.11),ft(0.604),fr(0.162)),cr(fr(0.211),ft(0.333),fr(0.113)))
   ft(0.664)*ft(0.295)
   ft(0.708)*ft(0.339)
   ft(0.604)*ft(0.333)
        0 0 0
        glaze2.cal
   0
   9
        0 0 0
        0 0 0
        0 0 0

Although I am not sure what kind of rounding error is acceptable in this
case, the hemispherical front/back reflectances and transmittance seem
to be well in the ballpark. If you want to go further you can look at
color, reflectance, and transmittance with a simple scene using a glow
source with unit radiance (eg 1 1 1). Doing this yields measures as
follows:

   Rf = .181
   Rb = .109
   T = .227

So here is what we get in summary:

       Optics Calculated
       Radiance Glaze Calculated
       Radiance Rpict Measured
Rf
       .178
       .178
       .181
Rb
       .107
       .109
       .109
T
       .228
       .225
       .227

A further piece of information that might be interesting is to obtain
the manufacturers calculated photopic Rf, Rb, and T for the system. I
have noticed that there can be small discrepancies between performance
data on sites and what Optics calculates.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

-Jack de Valpine

--
# Jack de Valpine
# president
#
# visarc incorporated
# http://www.visarc.com
#
# channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 12/14/2010 5:47 PM, Fran?ois Cantin wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I would like to model a double glazing system like the following:
>
> first pane
>
> surface 1: Crystal gray (Optics database number: 3056)
>
> surface 2: Crystal gray with a SunGuard Ag 43 coating (Optics: 3156)
>
> second pane
>
> surface 3: Clear glass with a SunGuard SuperNeutral (SN) 62 coating
> (Optics: 3116)
>
> surface 4: Clear glass (Optics: 3016)
>
> Using the Optics2glazedb script provided by Jack de Valpine, I'm able
> to create a custom database which contain all of the above
> surfaces/layers and can be read by the Glaze script.
>
> However, the Glaze script, used to combine the surfaces and generate a
> usable material definition, force the user to select at least one
> clear glass to compose each pane (surface 1 or 2 must be clear AND
> surface 3 or 4 must be clear). Moreover, the clear glass must be the
> same for both panes and must be the first one on the list provided
> when running the Glaze script.
>
> My question is:
>
> If I bypass the ''if structures'' constraining the composition of the
> panes in order to allow the selection of two different uncoated glass,
> can I expect the output to be still valid ?
>
> /.../
>
> /#if ($s1t != 1 && $s2t != 1) then/
>
> / #echo "One surface of each pane must be $sn_arr[1]"/
>
> ///#exit 1/
>
> /#endif/
>
> /.../
>
> //
>
> //
>
> /.../
>
> /#if ($s3t != 1 && $s4t != 1) then/
>
> / #echo "One surface of each pane must be $sn_arr[1]"/
>
> ///#exit 1/
>
> /#endif/
>
> /.../
>
> Without such bypass, generating a glazing system like the one
> described above seems impossible.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help,
>
> _____________________________________________________________
>
> *Fran?ois Cantin, M Arch, MSc Arch
> *
> *Hudon Julien* associes,
>
> 1175 Lavigerie, suite 400, Ste-Foy(Qu?bec) G1V 4P1
> T?l: (418) 653-8484 #224, Fax:(418) 653-6189
> E-mail: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> Site web: www.hudonjulien.com <http://www.hudonjulien.com/>
>
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