Radiance-general Digest, Vol 124, Issue 7

radiance-general
1

Dear Thomas:

First of all, thank you very much for your suggestions.

I would like to ask you for counselling regarding a problem I am experiencing with the rendering process. I have built my Sketch up model, and I exported it to radiance(using the su2rad_1.0_alpha version) and I’m in the rendering stage (rpict). The problem is that the window frame elements are not visualizing well: they appear undefined and missing some parts (as shown in the link below).

I used 2 types of Radiance parameters, first I used the very accurate parameter, and since this didn’t seem to improve the image I increased these parameters, but this problem continues to happen.

I don’t know if maybe I’m doing something wrong with the su2rad geometry exporting process because I have done this from Ecotect to Radiance before and I haven’t had this issue.
I’m sending you the link to the folders that contain these files so you can give me your opinion and hopefully help me to solve this.

Again, thank you for your time.

M. Beatriz Piderit M.
Arquitecta UBB, MA, PhD UC Louvain

Departamento Diseño y Teoría de la Arquitectura
Universidad del Bio-Bio Concepción, Chile

···

El 10-06-2014, a las 15:00, [email protected] escribió:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: su2rad update for SketchUp 2014 (Thomas Bleicher)
  2. Re: su2rad update for SketchUp 2014 (Thomas Bleicher)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 13:20:25 -0500
From: Thomas Bleicher <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] su2rad update for SketchUp 2014
Message-ID:
  <CAKGV-k31-OhaepOA_GXXZ7+2FRFeVLVo5Y=ANP1xmgvxWNcVMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Maria

Thanks for giving su2rad a try. I have recently updated the installer
package and it's now available as a SketchUp extension as well. It's not
available in the Extension Warehouse yet but you can download it here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pewocv4df0i2i05/su2rad_2014.0.0.rbz

I think that all the features that you require are already in the "alpha"
release although they are not fully tested. Now to your questions:

1) *By layer vs. by color vs. by group*: The "by layer" mode is useful for
models that have been imported from a CAD application and have the elements
separated by layers. You don't need to reorganize your model to separate
the model components like floors and walls etc. "By color" separates the
elements based on their SketchUp color or material. You would use this for
models created in SketchUp to separate the building elements for Radiance
to study for example different wall reflectivity values. Finally the "by
group" option keeps the SketchUp scene structure with groups and components
and translates it to nested *.rad files. This is the most efficient way to
export complex scenes that have many detailed components like chairs or
other furniture. The simplest option is probably "by color".

2) You can create a single file by passing the scene *.rad file that is
created for a scene through xform:

xform scene_1.rad > scene_1_expanded.rad

Xform reads all the referenced files and combines their content into a
single file, including any optional transformations.

3) To create an analysis grid you have to create a layer called "numeric".
Then create a polygon on this layer to represent your work plane (for
example copy the floor to the work plane height, then "shrink" the boundary
with the offset tool and delete the outer ring). Create a group for this
polygon (or more than one) and give it a name. That's the name the *.pts
file will get. During the export this polygon will be exported to a *.pts
file with points in the global coordinate system (i.e. suitable to use in
Radiance). The grid spacing is fixed to 0.25m in x an y and the direction
of the ray is fixed to (0,0,1).

4) I don't know how you could "optimize" the results. You can optimize the
rendering time but that depends largely on your scene and the purpose of
your calculations. You can ask on the Radiance mailing list for
optimization tips. Please provide details about your scene and your render
settings. In terms of modeling you should avoid large differences in scale.
If you are modeling an entire building don't go into too much detail, just
make holes for the windows and a rough shape for the window frames, but
nothing too sophisticated. A simple rectangular section will do. Also try
to model a clean and well structured SketchUp model. It's good to model the
interior walls of a room separate from the exterior to avoid any issues
with interpolation. To avoid issues with surface materials I would group
elements with the same material together and apply the color to the group
and not an individual polygon. That will avoid problems where surfaces can
have different front and back materials. Radiance can only use one.

In general the exporter does not care about the quality of the model. It
will take whatever there is in SU and export it to Radiance as accurate as
possible.

Regards,
Thomas

On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Mar?a Beatriz Piderit <[email protected]> > wrote:

Dear Thomas,

Thank you for the information provided in your website, it has been very
helpful.I am attempting to run Radiance simulation via Sketch Up 8 pro
(instead of doing it through Ecotect). I installed the Sketch Up to
Radiance plugin (su2rad_1.0.alpha version), and there are some doubts about
the exporting process I wish to ask if you can help me with. First I?d
like to ask, how would you recommend exporting the files to radiance in
order to achieve the best results (by colour, by layer or by group)?.
Related to that, I wish to ask if there?s a way to obtain a single file
that contents all the geometry in it, because so far I have found the best
way is to export by layers but it creates multiple files that content the
geometry (basically one file per layer) in the objects folder.

Also, I?m struggling to find a way to create the analysis grid in Sketch
Up (or within the plugin) in order to obtain a grid. pts file, so if you
know how to do that it would be extremely helpful.

Finally, if there were any guidelines that you could provide of how to
optimize the results, whether it is related to the model building or the
exporting process, it would be much appreciated.

Thank you for your time.

Beatriz
Arquitecta UBB, MA, PhD UC Louvain

Departamento Dise?o y Teor?a de la Arquitectura
Universidad del Bio-Bio Concepci?n, Chile

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 13:23:55 -0500
From: Thomas Bleicher <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] su2rad update for SketchUp 2014
Message-ID:
  <CAKGV-k3fbMaOkfuUgAVGd3NQpb9LnOhU01u0zhhBDj8qAoNYwA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Ups. I didn't realize that this message came via the Radiance general list.
If there are any su2rad users out there please chip in with your experience.

Thomas
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------------------------------

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End of Radiance-general Digest, Vol 124, Issue 7
************************************************

2

Hi Maria,

The problem you're seeing is aliasing. It's a common problem in rendering
that is usually solved by rendering the image larger and down-sampling. The
rendering has a (default) resolution of 512x512. If you increase the size
to say 1536x1536 then use pfilt to down sample you should get a much nicer
image.

Here are example commands:

rpict *-x 1536 -y 1536 *-vth -vh 180 -vv 180 -vp 1.20 5.5 1.5 ab 7 -av 0.01
0.01 0.01 -dp 4096 -ad 8192 -as 4096 -ar 160 -ms 0.085 -ds 0.2 -dt 0.05 -dc
0.75 -dr 3 -sj 1 -st 0.1 -aa 0.08 -lr 12 -lw .005 sunny_21-03_12-00.oct >
results/zn_b2_sin_sunny_21-03_12-00_full.pic

pfilt -x 1024 -y 1024 -r 1 results/zn_b2_sin_sunny_21-03_12-00_b.pic |
pfilt -x 512 -y 512 > results/zn_b2_sin_sunny_21-03_12-00_filtered.pic

(I like to do a double pfilt using a gaussian filter with high radius on
the first and then regular box filtering on the second)

This command will take longer since it is rendering 9x as many pixels, but
you can probably reduce most of the parameters (ad, as, ar, aa etc.) to
increase speed (they seem a bit excessive for this model)

Here's an example I rendered (with much lower parameters for faster
rendering):
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/xxs0i7srcruoe46/AAARZz-44yjktcpcDTFLdUvEa (your
original rendering is on the left and my filtered rendering is on the right)

Best,
Andy

···

On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:41 AM, María Beatriz Piderit <[email protected] > wrote:

Dear Thomas:

First of all, thank you very much for your suggestions.

I would like to ask you for counselling regarding a problem I am
experiencing with the rendering process. I have built my Sketch up model,
and I exported it to radiance(using the su2rad_1.0_alpha version) and I'm
in the rendering stage (rpict). The problem is that the window frame
elements are not visualizing well: they appear undefined and missing some
parts (as shown in the link below).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lwvi9f35e0r33pv/AACqWAvwn0Wx7ybWb1OVno78a

I used 2 types of Radiance parameters, first I used the very accurate
parameter, and since this didn't seem to improve the image I increased
these parameters, but this problem continues to happen.

I don't know if maybe I'm doing something wrong with the su2rad geometry
exporting process because I have done this from Ecotect to Radiance before
and I haven't had this issue.
I'm sending you the link to the folders that contain these files so you
can give me your opinion and hopefully help me to solve this.

Again, thank you for your time.

M. Beatriz Piderit M.
Arquitecta UBB, MA, PhD UC Louvain

Departamento Diseño y Teoría de la Arquitectura
Universidad del Bio-Bio Concepción, Chile

El 10-06-2014, a las 15:00, [email protected] > escribió:

Send Radiance-general mailing list submissions to
[email protected]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[email protected]

You can reach the person managing the list at
[email protected]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Radiance-general digest..."

Today's Topics:

  1. Re: su2rad update for SketchUp 2014 (Thomas Bleicher)
  2. Re: su2rad update for SketchUp 2014 (Thomas Bleicher)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 13:20:25 -0500
From: Thomas Bleicher <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] su2rad update for SketchUp 2014
Message-ID:
<CAKGV-k31-OhaepOA_GXXZ7+2FRFeVLVo5Y=ANP1xmgvxWNcVMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Maria

Thanks for giving su2rad a try. I have recently updated the installer
package and it's now available as a SketchUp extension as well. It's not
available in the Extension Warehouse yet but you can download it here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pewocv4df0i2i05/su2rad_2014.0.0.rbz

I think that all the features that you require are already in the "alpha"
release although they are not fully tested. Now to your questions:

1) *By layer vs. by color vs. by group*: The "by layer" mode is useful for
models that have been imported from a CAD application and have the elements
separated by layers. You don't need to reorganize your model to separate
the model components like floors and walls etc. "By color" separates the
elements based on their SketchUp color or material. You would use this for
models created in SketchUp to separate the building elements for Radiance
to study for example different wall reflectivity values. Finally the "by
group" option keeps the SketchUp scene structure with groups and components
and translates it to nested *.rad files. This is the most efficient way to
export complex scenes that have many detailed components like chairs or
other furniture. The simplest option is probably "by color".

2) You can create a single file by passing the scene *.rad file that is
created for a scene through xform:

xform scene_1.rad > scene_1_expanded.rad

Xform reads all the referenced files and combines their content into a
single file, including any optional transformations.

3) To create an analysis grid you have to create a layer called "numeric".
Then create a polygon on this layer to represent your work plane (for
example copy the floor to the work plane height, then "shrink" the boundary
with the offset tool and delete the outer ring). Create a group for this
polygon (or more than one) and give it a name. That's the name the *.pts
file will get. During the export this polygon will be exported to a *.pts
file with points in the global coordinate system (i.e. suitable to use in
Radiance). The grid spacing is fixed to 0.25m in x an y and the direction
of the ray is fixed to (0,0,1).

4) I don't know how you could "optimize" the results. You can optimize the
rendering time but that depends largely on your scene and the purpose of
your calculations. You can ask on the Radiance mailing list for
optimization tips. Please provide details about your scene and your render
settings. In terms of modeling you should avoid large differences in scale.
If you are modeling an entire building don't go into too much detail, just
make holes for the windows and a rough shape for the window frames, but
nothing too sophisticated. A simple rectangular section will do. Also try
to model a clean and well structured SketchUp model. It's good to model the
interior walls of a room separate from the exterior to avoid any issues
with interpolation. To avoid issues with surface materials I would group
elements with the same material together and apply the color to the group
and not an individual polygon. That will avoid problems where surfaces can
have different front and back materials. Radiance can only use one.

In general the exporter does not care about the quality of the model. It
will take whatever there is in SU and export it to Radiance as accurate as
possible.

Regards,
Thomas

On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Mar?a Beatriz Piderit < > [email protected]> > wrote:

Dear Thomas,

Thank you for the information provided in your website, it has been very
helpful.I am attempting to run Radiance simulation via Sketch Up 8 pro
(instead of doing it through Ecotect). I installed the Sketch Up to
Radiance plugin (su2rad_1.0.alpha version), and there are some doubts about
the exporting process I wish to ask if you can help me with. First I?d
like to ask, how would you recommend exporting the files to radiance in
order to achieve the best results (by colour, by layer or by group)?.
Related to that, I wish to ask if there?s a way to obtain a single file
that contents all the geometry in it, because so far I have found the best
way is to export by layers but it creates multiple files that content the
geometry (basically one file per layer) in the objects folder.

Also, I?m struggling to find a way to create the analysis grid in Sketch
Up (or within the plugin) in order to obtain a grid. pts file, so if you
know how to do that it would be extremely helpful.

Finally, if there were any guidelines that you could provide of how to
optimize the results, whether it is related to the model building or the
exporting process, it would be much appreciated.

Thank you for your time.

Beatriz
Arquitecta UBB, MA, PhD UC Louvain

Departamento Dise?o y Teor?a de la Arquitectura
Universidad del Bio-Bio Concepci?n, Chile

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 13:23:55 -0500
From: Thomas Bleicher <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] su2rad update for SketchUp 2014
Message-ID:
<CAKGV-k3fbMaOkfuUgAVGd3NQpb9LnOhU01u0zhhBDj8qAoNYwA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Ups. I didn't realize that this message came via the Radiance general list.
If there are any su2rad users out there please chip in with your
experience.

Thomas
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------------------------------

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[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

End of Radiance-general Digest, Vol 124, Issue 7
************************************************

_______________________________________________
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[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general