Radiance-daysim Digest, Vol 26, Issue 2

Hi Jan

To compute trasnmissivity (tn) from transmittance (Tn), I should use:

        tn = (sqrt(.8402528435+.0072522239*Tn*Tn)-.9166530661)/.0036261119/Tn

But, how can I compute the solar transmissivity from the solar
transmittance?

Besides, can you help me with the following:
- What is the way in Daysim to customize all sensor points in the
file *.pts as irradiance sensors? This last in order to avoid
customizing all sensors, one by one, in the sensor type column of the
Daysim interface.

- I am new in Diva-for-Rhino, but I have seen that it can calculate annual
irradiation at node locations (radiation maps-grid based). Is this
equivalent to the calculation of the solar irradiation in Daysim?

Many thanks

···

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 11:49:22 +0200
From: Jan Wienold <[email protected]>
To: DAYSIM discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-daysim] Radiance-daysim Digest, Vol 26, Issue 1
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

Radiance and Daysim do internally not raytrace spectrally - there are
calculating simply in channels (RGB for Radiance, Daysim just one). That
means:what you put in you will get out :

If you use a weather file with solar spectrum AND your material
properties are valid for that range (that means using solar
transmittance, solar reflectance) then you also get solar irradiance as
output.

That means for your last question: Yes, you should insert the "solar
transmissivity" (must be calculated from the solar transmittance). Don't
forget to use also solar reflectance values for all your surfaces.
Usually they are very similar to the visible, but there are exceptions.

But please consider, that Radiance (and daysim) are raytracers! They do
not consider any change in wavelength for a ray. That means they do NOT
consider the heating up of a surface when it is absorbing radiation and
emitting it in the IR.

That's why you CANNOT calculate the "real" SHGC of a window system. You
can just calculate the solar transmittance. Depending on your glazing
system the difference between the SHGC and the solar transmittance could
significant (I guess more than 40% is possible in general, typically the
difference for a normal glazing is in a range of 10-20%)!

E.g. if you check a typical glazing from Interpane (Tau_vis=0.76,
Tau_solar=0.48, SHGC=0.55, see here:
http://www.interpane.net/interpane2013/teweint.php?lang=de&site=10331.html
),
the difference is 13%. For a combination of Planilux/Planitherm of St.
Gobain I calculated with Window 7 (LBNL software) Tau_vis 0.75,
Tau_solar=0.48 and SHGC of 0.59 (19% difference).

Jan

On 11/08/16 10:17, Abigail Chi wrote:
> Hi Christoph and many thanks for your answer. I have the following
> queries.
>
> - I choose a material (in this case a glass) and specify its
> transmissivity as follows:
> mod glass id
> 0
> 0
> 3 rtn gtn btn
> This defines the way "visible light" is transmitted through the glass.
> I think this is useful when I use illuminance sensors.
> But, if I use the irradiance sensors, do I need to specify the solar
> transmittance of the glass instead of the visible transmittance?
>
> - What is the way in Daysim to customize all sensor points in the file
> *.pts as irradiance sensors? This last in order to avoid customizing
> all sensors, one by one, in the sensor type column of the Daysim
> interface.
>
> - I am new in Diva-for-Rhino, but I have seen that it can calculate
> annual irradiation at node locations (radiation maps-grid based). Is
> this equivalent to the calculation of the solar irradiation in Daysim?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Abigail

Hi Abigail,

-for the solar transmissivity you can use the same equation.

-the pts-file does not contain the information about the sensor type. If you want to change that manually, you have to do that in the header file. Syntax please see here: http://daysim.ning.com/page/keyword-output-units . If you have hundreds of points, I recommend to write a script generating for you this entry in the header-file.

-I haven't used the new version of DIVA yet, so maybe someone else can answer this question more detailed. I know you can go two approaches, either you define a node in W/m*m and run an annual simulation with daysim OR you run an irradiation map with /gencumulativesky /,but I'm not sure where to invoke the latter one in the new version.

good luck!
Jan/
/

···

On 11/08/16 12:09, Abigail Chi wrote:

Hi Jan

To compute trasnmissivity (tn) from transmittance (Tn), I should use:
         tn = (sqrt(.8402528435+.0072522239*Tn*Tn)-.9166530661)/.0036261119/Tn
But, how can I compute the solar transmissivity from the solar transmittance?

Besides, can you help me with the following:
- What is the way in Daysim to customize all sensor points in the file *.pts as irradiance sensors? This last in order to avoid customizing all sensors, one by one, in the sensor type column of the Daysim interface.

- I am new in Diva-for-Rhino, but I have seen that it can calculate annual irradiation at node locations (radiation maps-grid based). Is this equivalent to the calculation of the solar irradiation in Daysim?

Many thanks

    ------------------------------

    Message: 2
    Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 11:49:22 +0200
    From: Jan Wienold <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
    To: DAYSIM discussion <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>
    Subject: Re: [Radiance-daysim] Radiance-daysim Digest, Vol 26, Issue 1
    Message-ID: <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

    Radiance and Daysim do internally not raytrace spectrally - there are
    calculating simply in channels (RGB for Radiance, Daysim just
    one). That
    means:what you put in you will get out :

    If you use a weather file with solar spectrum AND your material
    properties are valid for that range (that means using solar
    transmittance, solar reflectance) then you also get solar
    irradiance as
    output.

    That means for your last question: Yes, you should insert the "solar
    transmissivity" (must be calculated from the solar transmittance).
    Don't
    forget to use also solar reflectance values for all your surfaces.
    Usually they are very similar to the visible, but there are
    exceptions.

    But please consider, that Radiance (and daysim) are raytracers!
    They do
    not consider any change in wavelength for a ray. That means they
    do NOT
    consider the heating up of a surface when it is absorbing
    radiation and
    emitting it in the IR.

    That's why you CANNOT calculate the "real" SHGC of a window
    system. You
    can just calculate the solar transmittance. Depending on your glazing
    system the difference between the SHGC and the solar transmittance
    could
    significant (I guess more than 40% is possible in general,
    typically the
    difference for a normal glazing is in a range of 10-20%)!

    E.g. if you check a typical glazing from Interpane (Tau_vis=0.76,
    Tau_solar=0.48, SHGC=0.55, see here:
    http://www.interpane.net/interpane2013/teweint.php?lang=de&site=10331.html
    <http://www.interpane.net/interpane2013/teweint.php?lang=de&site=10331.html&gt;\),
    the difference is 13%. For a combination of Planilux/Planitherm of St.
    Gobain I calculated with Window 7 (LBNL software) Tau_vis 0.75,
    Tau_solar=0.48 and SHGC of 0.59 (19% difference).

    Jan

    On 11/08/16 10:17, Abigail Chi wrote:
    > Hi Christoph and many thanks for your answer. I have the following
    > queries.
    >
    > - I choose a material (in this case a glass) and specify its
    > transmissivity as follows:
    > mod glass id
    > 0
    > 3 rtn gtn btn
    > This defines the way "visible light" is transmitted through the
    glass.
    > I think this is useful when I use illuminance sensors.
    > But, if I use the irradiance sensors, do I need to specify the solar
    > transmittance of the glass instead of the visible transmittance?
    >
    > - What is the way in Daysim to customize all sensor points in
    the file
    > *.pts as irradiance sensors? This last in order to avoid customizing
    > all sensors, one by one, in the sensor type column of the Daysim
    > interface.
    >
    > - I am new in Diva-for-Rhino, but I have seen that it can calculate
    > annual irradiation at node locations (radiation maps-grid based). Is
    > this equivalent to the calculation of the solar irradiation in
    Daysim?
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    > Abigail

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--
Dr.-Ing. Jan Wienold
Ecole Polytechnique F�d�rale de Lausanne (EPFL)
EPFL ENAC IA LIPID

LE 1 111 (Office)
Phone +41 21 69 30849

-I haven't used the new version of DIVA yet, so maybe someone else can answer this question more detailed. I know you can go two approaches, either you define a node in W/m*m and run an annual simulation with daysim OR you run an irradiation map with gencumulativesky ,but I'm not sure where to invoke the latter one in the new version.
In Rhino go to Metrics >>Daylight Grid-Based >> Daysim-Based hourly Method