Frit Glass trans Paramters

radiance-general
1

Hi All,

I am trying to model frit glass with varying percentage( 20% to 60%) of
silk screen coverage(dots) using trans material to compare illuminance
levels and glare. I am using DIVA for Rhino simulation interface for
Radiance simulation. I am representing the glass as a single surface in the
model.

I am struggling to come up with the Transmitted specularity(Ts), Diffuse
Transmission(Td) , Reflected specularity(Rs) and the Diffuse reflectance
(Cr, Cg,Cb) , so as to calculate the A1 to A7 trans material values.

Any suggestion or pointers on how to estimate or get the above values?

for example, I have the following frit glass assembly with 60% coverage
that I pulled form glass manufacture website.

1/4" (6mm) clear VE-85 #2 and 60% Coverage V175 #2

1/2" (13.2mm) argon space

1/4" (6mm) clear

Appreciate your help!

Best,

···

--
Aditya Potipireddi,

2

Aditya,

Trans isn't really a great option for modeling glazing with frit since the
transmission properties don't change with angle. I'd recommend using the
glaze script that comes with Radiance to build up your glazing material.
You simply type 'glaze' at the command line and follow the prompts. the
internal demo database already has the V175 frit.

Jack de Valpine gave a presentation describing how to use glaze to build up
an IGU. And how to use data from LBNL optics to add entries to your glaze
database (slide 10). He has the low-e coating you're proposing on slide 10,
so you might be able to just copy it into your local database.
http://www.radiance-online.org/community/workshops/2009-boston-ma/Presentations/devalpine_visarc_glazing.pdf

Best,
Andy

···

On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 10:57 PM, Aditya Potipireddi <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi All,

I am trying to model frit glass with varying percentage( 20% to 60%) of
silk screen coverage(dots) using trans material to compare illuminance
levels and glare. I am using DIVA for Rhino simulation interface for
Radiance simulation. I am representing the glass as a single surface in the
model.

I am struggling to come up with the Transmitted specularity(Ts), Diffuse
Transmission(Td) , Reflected specularity(Rs) and the Diffuse reflectance
(Cr, Cg,Cb) , so as to calculate the A1 to A7 trans material values.

Any suggestion or pointers on how to estimate or get the above values?

for example, I have the following frit glass assembly with 60% coverage
that I pulled form glass manufacture website.

1/4" (6mm) clear VE-85 #2 and 60% Coverage V175 #2

1/2" (13.2mm) argon space

1/4" (6mm) clear

Appreciate your help!

Best,

--
Aditya Potipireddi,

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

3

Hi Andy,

This seems as good a time as any. I put together a blog post about Glass in Radiance <http://modsimvis.blogspot.com/&gt;\. I need to add some information about the optics2rad script but have not gotten around to it. But it may be a helpful resource as the topic (glaze) does seem to come up.

Best,

-Jack

···

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 4/6/2015 2:27 PM, Andrew McNeil wrote:

Aditya,

Trans isn't really a great option for modeling glazing with frit since the transmission properties don't change with angle. I'd recommend using the glaze script that comes with Radiance to build up your glazing material. You simply type 'glaze' at the command line and follow the prompts. the internal demo database already has the V175 frit.

Jack de Valpine gave a presentation describing how to use glaze to build up an IGU. And how to use data from LBNL optics to add entries to your glaze database (slide 10). He has the low-e coating you're proposing on slide 10, so you might be able to just copy it into your local database.
http://www.radiance-online.org/community/workshops/2009-boston-ma/Presentations/devalpine_visarc_glazing.pdf

Best,
Andy

On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 10:57 PM, Aditya Potipireddi <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    Hi All,

    I am trying to model frit glass with varying percentage( 20% to
    60%) of silk screen coverage(dots) using trans material to
    compare illuminance levels and glare. I am using DIVA for Rhino
    simulation interface for Radiance simulation. I am representing
    the glass as a single surface in the model.

    I am struggling to come up with the Transmitted specularity(Ts),
    Diffuse Transmission(Td) , Reflected specularity(Rs) and the
    Diffuse reflectance (Cr, Cg,Cb) , so as to calculate the A1 to
    A7 trans material values.

    Any suggestion or pointers on how to estimate or get the above values?

    for example,//I have the following frit glass assembly with 60%
    coverage that I pulled form glass manufacture website.

    1/4" (6mm) clear VE-85 #2 and 60% Coverage V175 #2

    1/2" (13.2mm) argon space

    1/4" (6mm) clear

    Appreciate your help!

    Best,

    -- Aditya Potipireddi,

    _______________________________________________
    Radiance-general mailing list
    [email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>
    http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

4

Andy/Jack,

Thank for providing great resource. I am tying to follow to the process
outlined and have couple of more questions:

1) Since I am using radiance using DIVA for Rhino( Windows operating
system), it creates a Radiance folder with in the DIVA folder. I navigated
to the radiance folder via command prompt window and tried to call for "
glaze" it gave error as glaze is not recognized. I have even installed the
Radiance versions 4.3.a.2 for win32.exe that I downloaded form NREL
radiance releases. Is there a command error ?

2) The "lib" folder under both Radiance folders has only glaze.1cal( single
pane fritted) and glaze2.cal(double pane fritted) files , there is no
"glaze" file are these the same as glaze file?

2) does the example work flow example in the website use unix or cygwin, if
so do i need to install cygwin? and is there specific version of radiance
that i need to install ?

4) can I not execute glaze and optics2glazedb via windows?

3) Should the "optics2glazedb" file put in a specific location and where
does the generated database get written to. Also, what is the file
extension for optics2glazedb ?

Appreciate your help and input.

Regards,

Aditya

···

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Andy,

This seems as good a time as any. I put together a blog post about Glass
in Radiance <http://modsimvis.blogspot.com/&gt;\. I need to add some
information about the optics2rad script but have not gotten around to it.
But it may be a helpful resource as the topic (glaze) does seem to come up.

Best,

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporatedwww.visarc.com

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 4/6/2015 2:27 PM, Andrew McNeil wrote:

Aditya,

Trans isn't really a great option for modeling glazing with frit since
the transmission properties don't change with angle. I'd recommend using
the glaze script that comes with Radiance to build up your glazing
material. You simply type 'glaze' at the command line and follow the
prompts. the internal demo database already has the V175 frit.

Jack de Valpine gave a presentation describing how to use glaze to build
up an IGU. And how to use data from LBNL optics to add entries to your
glaze database (slide 10). He has the low-e coating you're proposing on
slide 10, so you might be able to just copy it into your local database.

http://www.radiance-online.org/community/workshops/2009-boston-ma/Presentations/devalpine_visarc_glazing.pdf

Best,
Andy

On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 10:57 PM, Aditya Potipireddi <[email protected]> > wrote:

Hi All,

I am trying to model frit glass with varying percentage( 20% to 60%)
of silk screen coverage(dots) using trans material to compare illuminance
levels and glare. I am using DIVA for Rhino simulation interface for
Radiance simulation. I am representing the glass as a single surface in the
model.

I am struggling to come up with the Transmitted specularity(Ts),
Diffuse Transmission(Td) , Reflected specularity(Rs) and the Diffuse
reflectance (Cr, Cg,Cb) , so as to calculate the A1 to A7 trans material
values.

Any suggestion or pointers on how to estimate or get the above values?

for example, I have the following frit glass assembly with 60% coverage
that I pulled form glass manufacture website.

1/4" (6mm) clear VE-85 #2 and 60% Coverage V175 #2

1/2" (13.2mm) argon space

1/4" (6mm) clear

Appreciate your help!

Best,

--
Aditya Potipireddi,

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing [email protected]://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

--
Aditya Potipireddi, LEED AP
480.544.4936

5

Hi Aditya,

Unfortunately, the glaze and other script is a csh script, so it has to be run under unix/linux...

-Jack

···

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporated

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 4/6/2015 8:00 PM, Aditya Potipireddi wrote:

Andy/Jack,

Thank for providing great resource. I am tying to follow to the process outlined and have couple of more questions:

1) Since I am using radiance using DIVA for Rhino( Windows operating system), it creates a Radiance folder with in the DIVA folder. I navigated to the radiance folder via command prompt window and tried to call for " glaze" it gave error as glaze is not recognized. I have even installed the Radiance versions 4.3.a.2 for win32.exe that I downloaded form NREL radiance releases. Is there a command error ?

2) The "lib" folder under both Radiance folders has only glaze.1cal( single pane fritted) and glaze2.cal(double pane fritted) files , there is no "glaze" file are these the same as glaze file?

2) does the example work flow example in the website use unix or cygwin, if so do i need to install cygwin? and is there specific version of radiance that i need to install ?

4) can I not execute glaze and optics2glazedb via windows?

3) Should the "optics2glazedb" file put in a specific location and where does the generated database get written to. Also, what is the file extension for optics2glazedb ?

Appreciate your help and input.

Regards,

Aditya

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    Hi Andy,

    This seems as good a time as any. I put together a blog post about
    Glass in Radiance <http://modsimvis.blogspot.com/&gt;\. I need to add
    some information about the optics2rad script but have not gotten
    around to it. But it may be a helpful resource as the topic
    (glaze) does seem to come up.

    Best,

    -Jack

    -- Jack de Valpine
    President

    Visarc Incorporated
    www.visarc.com <http://www.visarc.com>

    channeling technology for superior design and construction

    On 4/6/2015 2:27 PM, Andrew McNeil wrote:

    Aditya,

    Trans isn't really a great option for modeling glazing with frit
    since the transmission properties don't change with angle. I'd
    recommend using the glaze script that comes with Radiance to
    build up your glazing material. You simply type 'glaze' at the
    command line and follow the prompts. the internal demo database
    already has the V175 frit.

    Jack de Valpine gave a presentation describing how to use glaze
    to build up an IGU. And how to use data from LBNL optics to add
    entries to your glaze database (slide 10). He has the low-e
    coating you're proposing on slide 10, so you might be able to
    just copy it into your local database.
    http://www.radiance-online.org/community/workshops/2009-boston-ma/Presentations/devalpine_visarc_glazing.pdf

    Best,
    Andy

    On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 10:57 PM, Aditya Potipireddi >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

        Hi All,

        I am trying to model frit glass with varying percentage( 20%
        to 60%) of silk screen coverage(dots) using trans material
        to compare illuminance levels and glare. I am using DIVA for
        Rhino simulation interface for Radiance simulation. I am
        representing the glass as a single surface in the model.

        I am struggling to come up with the Transmitted
        specularity(Ts), Diffuse Transmission(Td) , Reflected
        specularity(Rs) and the Diffuse reflectance (Cr, Cg,Cb) , so
        as to calculate the A1 to A7 trans material values.

        Any suggestion or pointers on how to estimate or get the
        above values?

        for example,//I have the following frit glass assembly with
        60% coverage that I pulled form glass manufacture website.

        1/4" (6mm) clear VE-85 #2 and 60% Coverage V175 #2

        1/2" (13.2mm) argon space

        1/4" (6mm) clear

        Appreciate your help!

        Best,

        -- Aditya Potipireddi,

        _______________________________________________
        Radiance-general mailing list
        [email protected]
        <mailto:[email protected]>
        http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

    _______________________________________________
    Radiance-general mailing list
    [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
    http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

    _______________________________________________
    Radiance-general mailing list
    [email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>
    http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

--
Aditya Potipireddi, LEED AP
480.544.4936

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

6

Aditya,

Well, shoot. Glaze is one of the few remaining c-shell scripts, which means
it won't run in DOS. Yes, you could install CGWIN. But, to save you the
hassle I've run it using the parameters you gave and the database from
Jack's blog (thanks Jack!). Though I put the frit on surface 3, because
glaze won't let you use a frit and low-e coating on the same surface. I
don't really know what effect putting the frit on surface 3 vs. underneath
the low-e on surface 2 has, but I'd guess you're much better off than had
you used a simple trans material. The BRTDfunc material definition is at
the very end of the text copied below.

hope this helps,
Andy

glaze -f jacksLibrary.db
Adding glazing types from file jacksLibrary.db :
ppg-clear-6
vir-ve12m
vir-ve22m
vir-ve32m
vir-ve42m
vir-ve52m
vir-ve62m
vir-ve72m
vir-ve82m
v-175
v-933
Enter the number of panes in the system: 2

Window normal faces interior

  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >-->
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
s1 s2 s3 s4

Supported surface types are:
   1 - ppg-clear-6
   2 - vir-ve12m
   3 - vir-ve22m
   4 - vir-ve32m
   5 - vir-ve42m
   6 - vir-ve52m
   7 - vir-ve62m
   8 - vir-ve72m
   9 - vir-ve82m
   10 - v-175
   11 - v-933

What is the type of s1? 1
What is the type of s2? 9
What is the type of s3? 10
What is the type of s4? 1
Enter fraction coverage for s3 (0-1): .6

···

############################################
# Glazing produced by Radiance glaze script
# Revision: 2\.8
# Loaded: jacksLibrary.db
# Mon Apr 6 17:18:12 PDT 2015
# Material surface normal points to interior
# Number of panes in system: 2
# Exterior surface s1 type: ppg-clear-6
# Inner surface s2 type: vir-ve82m
# Inner surface s3 type: v-175
# s3 coating coverage: .6
# Interior surface s4 type: ppg-clear-6
# Exterior normal hemispherical reflectance: 0.193682287
# Interior normal hemispherical reflectance: 0.23918856
# Normal hemispherical transmittance: 0.287884687
#
void BRTDfunc glaze2_unnamed
10
if(Rdot,cr(1*rclr,0.4*1*tclr,fr(0.022)),cr(fr(0.052),ft(0.5),0.4*rclr))
if(Rdot,cr(1*rclr,0.4*1*tclr,fr(0.036)),cr(fr(0.055),ft(0.648),0.4*rclr))
if(Rdot,cr(1*rclr,0.4*1*tclr,fr(0.024)),cr(fr(0.056),ft(0.505),0.4*rclr))
0.4*1*ft(0.5)*tclr
0.4*1*ft(0.648)*tclr
0.4*1*ft(0.505)*tclr
0 0 0
glaze2.cal
0
9
0.1494
0.1464
0.1452
0.0885
0.148646016
0.09027885
0.063
0.081648
0.06363

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Aditya Potipireddi <[email protected]> wrote:

Andy/Jack,

Thank for providing great resource. I am tying to follow to the process
outlined and have couple of more questions:

1) Since I am using radiance using DIVA for Rhino( Windows operating
system), it creates a Radiance folder with in the DIVA folder. I navigated
to the radiance folder via command prompt window and tried to call for "
glaze" it gave error as glaze is not recognized. I have even installed the
Radiance versions 4.3.a.2 for win32.exe that I downloaded form NREL
radiance releases. Is there a command error ?

2) The "lib" folder under both Radiance folders has only glaze.1cal(
single pane fritted) and glaze2.cal(double pane fritted) files , there is
no "glaze" file are these the same as glaze file?

2) does the example work flow example in the website use unix or cygwin,
if so do i need to install cygwin? and is there specific version of
radiance that i need to install ?

4) can I not execute glaze and optics2glazedb via windows?

3) Should the "optics2glazedb" file put in a specific location and where
does the generated database get written to. Also, what is the file
extension for optics2glazedb ?

Appreciate your help and input.

Regards,

Aditya

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Jack de Valpine <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Andy,

This seems as good a time as any. I put together a blog post about Glass
in Radiance <http://modsimvis.blogspot.com/&gt;\. I need to add some
information about the optics2rad script but have not gotten around to it.
But it may be a helpful resource as the topic (glaze) does seem to come up.

Best,

-Jack

--
Jack de Valpine
President

Visarc Incorporatedwww.visarc.com

channeling technology for superior design and construction

On 4/6/2015 2:27 PM, Andrew McNeil wrote:

Aditya,

Trans isn't really a great option for modeling glazing with frit since
the transmission properties don't change with angle. I'd recommend using
the glaze script that comes with Radiance to build up your glazing
material. You simply type 'glaze' at the command line and follow the
prompts. the internal demo database already has the V175 frit.

Jack de Valpine gave a presentation describing how to use glaze to
build up an IGU. And how to use data from LBNL optics to add entries to
your glaze database (slide 10). He has the low-e coating you're proposing
on slide 10, so you might be able to just copy it into your local database.

http://www.radiance-online.org/community/workshops/2009-boston-ma/Presentations/devalpine_visarc_glazing.pdf

Best,
Andy

On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 10:57 PM, Aditya Potipireddi <[email protected]> >> wrote:

Hi All,

I am trying to model frit glass with varying percentage( 20% to 60%)
of silk screen coverage(dots) using trans material to compare illuminance
levels and glare. I am using DIVA for Rhino simulation interface for
Radiance simulation. I am representing the glass as a single surface in the
model.

I am struggling to come up with the Transmitted specularity(Ts),
Diffuse Transmission(Td) , Reflected specularity(Rs) and the Diffuse
reflectance (Cr, Cg,Cb) , so as to calculate the A1 to A7 trans material
values.

Any suggestion or pointers on how to estimate or get the above values?

for example, I have the following frit glass assembly with 60%
coverage that I pulled form glass manufacture website.

1/4" (6mm) clear VE-85 #2 and 60% Coverage V175 #2

1/2" (13.2mm) argon space

1/4" (6mm) clear

Appreciate your help!

Best,

--
Aditya Potipireddi,

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing [email protected]://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

--
Aditya Potipireddi, LEED AP
480.544.4936

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general