diffuse skylight without well: continued

Hello,

Prof Moeck, thanks for the quick pointer. I couldn't ascertain if it can be
done okalux products but I need glass types that I can model in Optics and
Window for Radiance material format and DOE-2.1E glass library format. I
looked up Optics and Window databases and could not locate Okalux in them.
Please advise.

Regards,
Ramana.

···

On 5/12/06, Martin Moeck <[email protected]> wrote:

Ramana,

Okalux has nice product specifications at

http://www.okalux.com/Okalux_2003/englisch/frames_e.html

Select "Products" at the bottom.

They have a good database since they specify the direct and diffuse light
transmission, UV protection, U-value, sound reduction, etc. You can use
those in pyramidal toplights. For a translation of the direct and diffuse
light transmission into the Radiance trans material, see the radiance
knowledge base and digests.I would also look into the glaze.cal script.

Dr. Martin Moeck, Pennsylvania State University

________________________________

From: [email protected] on behalf of Ramana
Koti
Sent: Fri 5/12/2006 3:04 PM
To: Radiance general discussion
Subject: [Radiance-general] diffuse skylight without well

Hello all,

Can anyone point me to a commerical manufacturer's website where there's
specifications of a diffuse skylight (preferably withouth well) that can be
modeled in Optics and imported into Radiance material format? (Anything
close or suggestions on an alternative way of doing it will work too!)

Regards,
Ramana.

--
Venkata Ramana Koti
1137 E Orange St Apt #35
Tempe AZ 85281 USA
Tel: 480.326.9275
www.daylit.org

MS in Building Design (Energy/Climate)
School of Architecture and Landscape Architecture
College of Design
Arizona State University, Tempe AZ 85287

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

--
Venkata Ramana Koti
1137 E Orange St Apt #35
Tempe AZ 85281 USA
Tel: 480.326.9275
www.daylit.org

MS in Building Design (Energy/Climate)
School of Architecture and Landscape Architecture
College of Design
Arizona State University, Tempe AZ 85287

Some really good glazing types, including highly diffuse museum glazings (one of the best being Opalika from Schott at http://www.us.schott.com/architecture/english/references.html) have no Radiance descriptions or are often not archived in the Window database. You can model those in different ways. The easiest way is to start out with the radiance material trans.

Example:
1) http://www.us.schott.com/architecture/english/products/colored-glass/opalika/index.html
2) Download the pdf file on the link below
3) See http://www.us.schott.com/architecture/english/download/schott_farbglas_us_kl.pdf and take a look at Opalika
4) Go to the product information which contains technical data:
http://www.us.schott.com/architecture/english/download/
5) Select the technical information at the bottom:
Technical Information
OPALIKA®-Physical and chemical properties
http://www.us.schott.com/architecture/english/download/opalikae.pdf
6) This product sheet tells you all optical properties, including a nice intensity distribution plot on p. 6.
7) The total transmittance is around 30%. Nevertheless, the material has a spike caused by the Radiance trans parameter number 7, which is the transmitted specular component.

Let's define this material. The general format of trans is:
void trans opalika
0 0 7
a1 a2 a3 a4 a5 a6 a7

We need additional parameters from the datasheet:

rd = diffuse reflectance of opalika, say 0.2
rs = specular reflectance of opalika, say 0.02
td = diffuse transmittance of opalika, say 0.28
ts = specular transmittance. Play with this value and see how close you can get to the intensity distribution displayed on the data sheet.

Let's start with ts = 0.01

a7=ts/(td+ts)
a6=(td+ts)/(rd+td+ts)
a5=0 (roughness - lets just assume 0 for convenience)
a4 = rs = 0.02 let's say (specular reflectance of Opalika)
a3 = a2 = a1 = rd/ ( (1-rs) *(1-a6) )

If you do the calculations, you will find the following:
void trans opalika
0
0
7 0.5 0.5 0.5 0.02 0.0 0.592 0.0345

Define this material in radiance as a polygon, and put a light source/horizontal sun rays behind it. Determine the luminance at nadir. Determine the luminance at 1, 2, 3 ... 20 degrees off nadir. See if you can get the plot listed in the data sheet. If not, change the ts parameter.

This is a good exercise since you should use data that are verifiable. Create your own values, verify them and don't rely too much on others :slight_smile: I have found substantial transmittance mistakes in manufacturers published data. We discussed some concerns about the windows database before in this group.

Martin Moeck

···

________________________________

From: [email protected] on behalf of Ramana Koti
Sent: Fri 5/12/2006 4:07 PM
To: Radiance general discussion
Subject: [Radiance-general] diffuse skylight without well: continued

Hello,

Prof Moeck, thanks for the quick pointer. I couldn't ascertain if it can be done okalux products but I need glass types that I can model in Optics and Window for Radiance material format and DOE-2.1E glass library format. I looked up Optics and Window databases and could not locate Okalux in them. Please advise.

Regards,
Ramana.

On 5/12/06, Martin Moeck <[email protected]> wrote:

  Ramana,
  
  Okalux has nice product specifications at
  
  http://www.okalux.com/Okalux_2003/englisch/frames_e.html
  
  Select "Products" at the bottom.
  
  They have a good database since they specify the direct and diffuse light transmission, UV protection, U-value, sound reduction, etc. You can use those in pyramidal toplights. For a translation of the direct and diffuse light transmission into the Radiance trans material, see the radiance knowledge base and digests.I would also look into the glaze.cal script.
  
  Dr. Martin Moeck, Pennsylvania State University
  
  ________________________________
  
  From: [email protected] on behalf of Ramana Koti
  Sent: Fri 5/12/2006 3:04 PM
  To: Radiance general discussion
  Subject: [Radiance-general] diffuse skylight without well
  
  Hello all,
  
  Can anyone point me to a commerical manufacturer's website where there's specifications of a diffuse skylight (preferably withouth well) that can be modeled in Optics and imported into Radiance material format? (Anything close or suggestions on an alternative way of doing it will work too!)
  
  Regards,
  Ramana.
  
  --
  Venkata Ramana Koti
  1137 E Orange St Apt #35
  Tempe AZ 85281 USA
  Tel: 480.326.9275
  www.daylit.org
  
  MS in Building Design (Energy/Climate)
  School of Architecture and Landscape Architecture
  College of Design
  Arizona State University, Tempe AZ 85287
  
  _______________________________________________
  Radiance-general mailing list
  [email protected]
  http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general
  
--
Venkata Ramana Koti
1137 E Orange St Apt #35
Tempe AZ 85281 USA
Tel: 480.326.9275
www.daylit.org

MS in Building Design (Energy/Climate)
School of Architecture and Landscape Architecture
College of Design
Arizona State University, Tempe AZ 85287

Hi Ramana,

I just want to warn you that Optics may not be capable of accurately
producing data for a glazing makeup with a diffusing element.

I had been using Optics to calculate color rendering index and light
transmission values for fritted glazing makeups using data supplied by a
manufacturer. Then about a year ago a colleague informed me that Optics
isn't intended to be used for glazing with diffuse transmission
qualities. At the time the method used by optics for optical
calculations was based only on non-scattering glazing.

You will find a couple of diffusing laminates in the IGDB, but I was
told that these are leftovers from before they stopped accepting data
for diffusing products.

This said, it's been a year since I looked into the situation. At the
time I was told that the inclusion of scattering data was a priority.
So if you know anything different please let me know.

Cheers,

Andrew

···

________________________________

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Ramana Koti
Sent: 12 May 2006 21:07
To: Radiance general discussion
Subject: [Radiance-general] diffuse skylight without well: continued

Hello,

Prof Moeck, thanks for the quick pointer. I couldn't ascertain if it can
be done okalux products but I need glass types that I can model in
Optics and Window for Radiance material format and DOE-2.1E glass
library format. I looked up Optics and Window databases and could not
locate Okalux in them. Please advise.

Regards,
Ramana.

On 5/12/06, Martin Moeck <[email protected]> wrote:

Ramana,

Okalux has nice product specifications at

http://www.okalux.com/Okalux_2003/englisch/frames_e.html

Select "Products" at the bottom.

They have a good database since they specify the direct and diffuse
light transmission, UV protection, U-value, sound reduction, etc. You
can use those in pyramidal toplights. For a translation of the direct
and diffuse light transmission into the Radiance trans material, see the
radiance knowledge base and digests.I would also look into the glaze.cal
script.

Dr. Martin Moeck, Pennsylvania State University

________________________________

From: [email protected] on behalf of Ramana
Koti
Sent: Fri 5/12/2006 3:04 PM
To: Radiance general discussion
Subject: [Radiance-general] diffuse skylight without well

Hello all,

Can anyone point me to a commerical manufacturer's website where there's
specifications of a diffuse skylight (preferably withouth well) that can
be modeled in Optics and imported into Radiance material format?
(Anything close or suggestions on an alternative way of doing it will
work too!)

Regards,
Ramana.

--
Venkata Ramana Koti
1137 E Orange St Apt #35
Tempe AZ 85281 USA
Tel: 480.326.9275
www.daylit.org

MS in Building Design (Energy/Climate)
School of Architecture and Landscape Architecture
College of Design
Arizona State University, Tempe AZ 85287

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

--
Venkata Ramana Koti
1137 E Orange St Apt #35
Tempe AZ 85281 USA
Tel: 480.326.9275
www.daylit.org

MS in Building Design (Energy/Climate)
School of Architecture and Landscape Architecture
College of Design
Arizona State University, Tempe AZ 85287

____________________________________________________________
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