Blender

While you guys (Thomas and Kirk) are on the topic. Would you mind sharing your opinions on the capabilities of Blender as a modeling tool and exporting to Radiance? How would you compare it to something like Autocad (if you have the experience).

Thanks,

-Jack

Kirk Thibault wrote:

···

Interesting thing - I recently started using Blender 2.41 (from 2.37) and I hadn't gotten around to reinstalling b/rad. So I downloaded the latest and copied brad.py into the ./blender/scripts folder and cp -R copied the "brad" directory into the ./blender/scripts directory as well, per the install instructions. Now, when I go to Blender's "Scripts" interface to update the menus, the only scripts that appear in the scripts menus are the ones that are alphabetically before brad.py, (brad is not included). As soon as I rm brad.py and the brad directory, the Blender Scripts menu is back to normal, with all of the available scripts as before.

Any thoughts on why this happens? if I manually load brad.py in Blender (into the test window) from the Scripts directory and then Alt-P (well, Option-P on the Mac) I get a console error telling me: ImportError: No module named brad_i18n - etc.

Mac OS X 10.4.4, G4 dual 1.25, Blender 2.41, Python 2.4 - brad.py is Rev 1.8 from Aug 11, 2005 (from CVS) and the rest is from brad 0.1b. The same thing happened with the brad.py file original 0.1b release, etc.

Thomas - pretty neat interface to brad from within Blender - I'm interested to see how this turns out.

Thanks,

kirk
------------------------------

Kirk L. Thibault, Ph.D.
[email protected]

p. 215.271.7720
f. 215.271.7740
c. 267.918.6908

skype. kirkthibault

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--
# Jack de Valpine
# president
#
# visarc incorporated
# http://www.visarc.com
#
# channeling technology for superior design and construction

I would not recommend Blender to people new to 3D graphics. It's
interface is and will ever be very 'unique'. Now there are good
guides available (even for download, see "Blender 2.3 Guide" at

http://www.blender.org/cms/Documentation.628.0.html

) to help you get over the first shock but Blender keeps changing
and the documentation unfortunately not or not as fast (some
features presented in the Guide are not available in the current
2.41 version or have been moved or renamed).

Compared to $$$$ software like 3D Studio MAX you see and feel that
it's a community project. Some features that could be considered
essential are not available or very limited (i.e. solid modeling).
Integration or exchange with other commercial applications (AutoCAD)
is on the basis of community maintained Python scripts.

Now, why bother with Blender?

Compared to other open source 3D apps it _is_ very powerful and
has a lot of feature: 3D editing, animation, rendering, sequence
(video) editing, game engine and others.

Blender can deal with large data sets and it has import/export
to DXF, OBJ and a lot of other formats. The support may be basic
sometimes but even commercial applications may only provide a
small subset of the DXF format.

The GUI is "dated" by todays standards but very flexible. You
can subdivide and define your layout as you like and store it
for later access (one layout for editing, one for export, etc.).

The big advantage from my point of view is the Python scripting
API. Blender makes nearly the complete OpenGL commands available
for scripts which can be used to present and display arbitrary
data to the user (like I do in the GUI toolkit/brad interface
with 3D graphs). You have to do a lot of programming to get
something suitable for complex tasks but I have done it and we
now can built on this with future Radiance export scripts.

Whenever Blender's own features are not enough you can use the
Python Standard Library and other Python modules to extend the
functionality (database access, networking, PDF output etc.).

WRT Radiance I think Blender has some features that make it
a perfect scene setup tool:

- separate entities for object instances and object data
   (data = *.rad file; instance = "!xform ..." of this file)

- hierarchical object relations
   (nested "!xform ..." commands in Radiance)

- multiple scenes in one file with shared data
   (scene "building", scene "office day", scene "office night")

- different object types for objects(mesh), camera, lamps

- DXF import, grid/object snap and numeric input for editing

Some day in the (near) future I hope to be able to:

  1) load polygon data from DXF into Blender
  2) assign materials from library to polygon objects
  3) add lamps as desired, assign luminaire data to lamps
     get lampdata (*.ies, *.ltd) from network db or local files
  4) define viewpoints and animation for walkthroughs
  5) define fields/grids for rtrace calculations
  6) set up object animation (i.e. moveable blinds)
  7) set up sky settings and animations
     based on gensky, gendaylit or HDR images
  8) set preprocess options like mkillum etc.
  9) check scene setup in rvu
10) export to manually editable Radiance scene input for
     rad, ranimate, make or our own control scripts
11) upload export to render daemon on BIG server
12) follow render process in process monitor while editing
13) load images and rtrace results for visualization/evaluation
14) combine
      * scene images (rpict or Blender)
      * scene stats (materials, number and type of lamps, etc)
      * rtrace results (table, graphs)
      * evaluation (graphs again, falsecolor, contour images)
     to project reports
15) export scene to alternate "nice picture" renderer like
     YafRay for visualization if Radiance is not enough
16) die late, health, happy and rich :wink:

At least that was the plan.

Thomas

···

On 20.02.2006, at 21:17, Jack de Valpine wrote:

While you guys (Thomas and Kirk) are on the topic. Would you mind
sharing your opinions on the capabilities of Blender as a modeling
tool and exporting to Radiance? How would you compare it to something
like Autocad (if you have the experience).

Jack,

See Thomas's comments below. :wink:

I too see Blender as being a powerful complement to Radiance because of the Python API, giving the Radiance end-user of Blender the ability to extend Blender to suit the needs of Radiance. It appears that Thomas has some pretty impressive goals for integrating Blender and Radiance even more tightly than I was imagining, but his ideas fit exactly my personal opinion of what I picture Radiance to be - a collection of tools that one can link together in endless combinations to achieve the specific task at hand. The open and Python-scriptable nature of Blender makes this a natural extension of the Radiance model.

Blender's modeling metaphor and control layout takes a little getting used to but it is customizable, so if you are used to using the left or right or middle mouse button to do certain things, etc. all that is configurable. I am not a CAD user, so I cannot compare the two to your level of detail, however, it is fairly robust as a modeler, supporting NURBS and Subd's, etc. I suppose it depends on what you are looking for it to do. It may be that Blender is a middle step in workflow that demands the precision of CAD and the flexibility to condition that CAD output into something more Radiance friendly and customizable. As Thomas mentioned, it would make the perfect "set up" tool - complex modeling in CAD, scene set-up, lighting and material selection, etc. in Blender and tweaking, crunching and analysis with Radiance's computing and analysis tools. You can;t beat the price.

I use Lightwave and Blender, mostly because I like trying the same thing in different ways to see how each app handles my solutions.

Good luck!

kirk

···

On Feb 20, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Thomas Bleicher wrote:

On 20.02.2006, at 21:17, Jack de Valpine wrote:

While you guys (Thomas and Kirk) are on the topic. Would you mind
sharing your opinions on the capabilities of Blender as a modeling
tool and exporting to Radiance? How would you compare it to something
like Autocad (if you have the experience).

I would not recommend Blender to people new to 3D graphics. It's
interface is and will ever be very 'unique'. Now there are good
guides available (even for download, see "Blender 2.3 Guide" at

http://www.blender.org/cms/Documentation.628.0.html

) to help you get over the first shock but Blender keeps changing
and the documentation unfortunately not or not as fast (some
features presented in the Guide are not available in the current
2.41 version or have been moved or renamed).

Compared to $$$$ software like 3D Studio MAX you see and feel that
it's a community project. Some features that could be considered
essential are not available or very limited (i.e. solid modeling).
Integration or exchange with other commercial applications (AutoCAD)
is on the basis of community maintained Python scripts.

Now, why bother with Blender?

Compared to other open source 3D apps it _is_ very powerful and
has a lot of feature: 3D editing, animation, rendering, sequence
(video) editing, game engine and others.

Blender can deal with large data sets and it has import/export
to DXF, OBJ and a lot of other formats. The support may be basic
sometimes but even commercial applications may only provide a
small subset of the DXF format.

The GUI is "dated" by todays standards but very flexible. You
can subdivide and define your layout as you like and store it
for later access (one layout for editing, one for export, etc.).

The big advantage from my point of view is the Python scripting
API. Blender makes nearly the complete OpenGL commands available
for scripts which can be used to present and display arbitrary
data to the user (like I do in the GUI toolkit/brad interface
with 3D graphs). You have to do a lot of programming to get
something suitable for complex tasks but I have done it and we
now can built on this with future Radiance export scripts.

Whenever Blender's own features are not enough you can use the
Python Standard Library and other Python modules to extend the
functionality (database access, networking, PDF output etc.).

WRT Radiance I think Blender has some features that make it
a perfect scene setup tool:

- separate entities for object instances and object data
  (data = *.rad file; instance = "!xform ..." of this file)

- hierarchical object relations
  (nested "!xform ..." commands in Radiance)

- multiple scenes in one file with shared data
  (scene "building", scene "office day", scene "office night")

- different object types for objects(mesh), camera, lamps

- DXF import, grid/object snap and numeric input for editing

Some day in the (near) future I hope to be able to:

1) load polygon data from DXF into Blender
2) assign materials from library to polygon objects
3) add lamps as desired, assign luminaire data to lamps
    get lampdata (*.ies, *.ltd) from network db or local files
4) define viewpoints and animation for walkthroughs
5) define fields/grids for rtrace calculations
6) set up object animation (i.e. moveable blinds)
7) set up sky settings and animations
    based on gensky, gendaylit or HDR images
8) set preprocess options like mkillum etc.
9) check scene setup in rvu
10) export to manually editable Radiance scene input for
    rad, ranimate, make or our own control scripts
11) upload export to render daemon on BIG server
12) follow render process in process monitor while editing
13) load images and rtrace results for visualization/evaluation
14) combine
     * scene images (rpict or Blender)
     * scene stats (materials, number and type of lamps, etc)
     * rtrace results (table, graphs)
     * evaluation (graphs again, falsecolor, contour images)
    to project reports
15) export scene to alternate "nice picture" renderer like
    YafRay for visualization if Radiance is not enough
16) die late, health, happy and rich :wink:

At least that was the plan.

Thomas

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Radiance-general mailing list
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Thomas.

First - Wow.
Second - I will gladly test it out for you, I can crash almost anything :wink:

This would be a thing of beauty.

kirk

···

On Feb 20, 2006, at 5:02 PM, Thomas Bleicher wrote:

Some day in the (near) future I hope to be able to:

1) load polygon data from DXF into Blender
2) assign materials from library to polygon objects
3) add lamps as desired, assign luminaire data to lamps
    get lampdata (*.ies, *.ltd) from network db or local files
4) define viewpoints and animation for walkthroughs
5) define fields/grids for rtrace calculations
6) set up object animation (i.e. moveable blinds)
7) set up sky settings and animations
    based on gensky, gendaylit or HDR images
8) set preprocess options like mkillum etc.
9) check scene setup in rvu
10) export to manually editable Radiance scene input for
    rad, ranimate, make or our own control scripts
11) upload export to render daemon on BIG server
12) follow render process in process monitor while editing
13) load images and rtrace results for visualization/evaluation
14) combine
     * scene images (rpict or Blender)
     * scene stats (materials, number and type of lamps, etc)
     * rtrace results (table, graphs)
     * evaluation (graphs again, falsecolor, contour images)
    to project reports
15) export scene to alternate "nice picture" renderer like
    YafRay for visualization if Radiance is not enough
16) die late, health, happy and rich :wink:

At least that was the plan.

Thomas

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general