radiance-online changes in June 2006

Hi folks,

sorry to bother you, but I think we'll have some changes with radiance-online in June 2006 :

After running this site for 6 years and going from "guerrilla" state to semi-official with 300+ subscribed folks on a stable, back-upped system, I feel like I've done my little share and, for various reasons, would like to pass on the torch. The domain had been registered (and paid for) by me at Network Solutions and will expire* 27. July 2006 *, so you guys might want to establish a new way before that date.

Someone would have to locate new hardware and a new provider, or re-use other existing servers, as the current server (a 19" rack mount on loan from pab-opto) and its location would not be available. Experience with Linux based Internet servers (if iptables ring a bell- excellent!), Apache, Mailman and CVS are useful. I'm happy to provide limited assistance during the transition, e.g. burn a frozen version of its content on CD/DVD, supply details of the current config or ship the system disks. There gotta be a few folks out here, among the 90 people on the dev list, who fit right in.

regards
Peter Apian-Bennewitz

···

--
pab-opto, Freiburg, Germany, http://www.pab-opto.de
[see web page to check digital email signature]

Peter Apian-Bennewitz

Hi folks,

sorry to bother you, but I think we'll have some changes with
radiance-online in June 2006 :

After running this site for 6 years and going from
"guerrilla" state to semi-official with 300+ subscribed folks
on a stable, back-upped system, I feel like I've done my
little share and, for various reasons, would like to pass on
the torch.

Thanks for that work, Peter!

The domain had been registered (and paid for) by
me at Network Solutions and will expire* 27. July 2006 *, so
you guys might want to establish a new way before that date.
Someone would have to locate new hardware and a new provider,
or re-use other existing servers, as the current server (a
19" rack mount on loan from pab-opto) and its location would
not be available.

The 27. is a fixed date and we have to act rather quickly to
get a new system up and running before that. I have no idea
about the traffic and load of that server but I expect that
a virtual Linux server would do fine for our small group.
I'm not up to date on current offers and service quality of
the providers but others here might have more experience.

Peter, can you provide some figures for traffic and the size
of radiance-online.org (GB of available data, size of archive
and CVS)?

Experience with Linux based Internet
servers (if iptables ring a bell- excellent!), Apache,
Mailman and CVS are useful. I'm happy to provide limited
assistance during the transition, e.g. burn a frozen version
of its content on CD/DVD, supply details of the current
config or ship the system disks. There gotta be a few folks
out here, among the 90 people on the dev list, who fit right
in.

I'm happy to volonteer as a sys admin in the long run. But
right now I'm in transition myself and have no private internet
connection. I doubt I can use SSH etc. from my workplace. So for
the immediate future someone else would have to provide some
knowledge and time (I could offer time if someone in London can
offer internet connection ...).

BTW: It would be a good idea to have 3 or 4 people with access
to the system. So emergency response time can be very short even
during holiday season :wink:

Thomas

···

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Hi All,

First off, I want to add to what Thomas said. Thanks for all the hard work, Peter! Truly, getting the radiance-online site up and running has definitely been one of the critical elements to revitalizing and consolidating the Radiance community over these 6 years. We have probably all taken for granted the energy and effort to keep the site so well maintained over the years. I am sorry for that.

The rest I offer just as a way to help get on the table some of the issues that we need to consider. I think there are two critical issues:

   1. domain name transfer - I am not sure about this but I do not think
      that someone can just go and sign up for the domain name, is there
      a process through Network Solutions for Peter to transfer the
      domain name to another party who would pay for and administer the
      domain name?
   2. site content and functionality - would it be worth considering
      some kind of "open source" oriented hosting/project service such
      as sourceforge or ibiblio?

It is not clear to me whether a commercial hosting service (some of which can be had quite cheaply) would be able to fulfill the range of functionality that the site currently has, perhaps others know more. So this would suggest that some kind of co-location solution may be required.

-Jack

Bleicher, Thomas wrote:

···

Peter Apian-Bennewitz

Hi folks,

sorry to bother you, but I think we'll have some changes with radiance-online in June 2006 :

After running this site for 6 years and going from "guerrilla" state to semi-official with 300+ subscribed folks on a stable, back-upped system, I feel like I've done my little share and, for various reasons, would like to pass on the torch.
    
Thanks for that work, Peter!

The domain had been registered (and paid for) by me at Network Solutions and will expire* 27. July 2006 *, so you guys might want to establish a new way before that date.
Someone would have to locate new hardware and a new provider, or re-use other existing servers, as the current server (a 19" rack mount on loan from pab-opto) and its location would not be available.
    
The 27. is a fixed date and we have to act rather quickly to
get a new system up and running before that. I have no idea
about the traffic and load of that server but I expect that
a virtual Linux server would do fine for our small group.
I'm not up to date on current offers and service quality of
the providers but others here might have more experience.
Peter, can you provide some figures for traffic and the size
of radiance-online.org (GB of available data, size of archive
and CVS)?

Experience with Linux based Internet servers (if iptables ring a bell- excellent!), Apache, Mailman and CVS are useful. I'm happy to provide limited assistance during the transition, e.g. burn a frozen version of its content on CD/DVD, supply details of the current config or ship the system disks. There gotta be a few folks out here, among the 90 people on the dev list, who fit right
in.
    
I'm happy to volonteer as a sys admin in the long run. But
right now I'm in transition myself and have no private internet
connection. I doubt I can use SSH etc. from my workplace. So for
the immediate future someone else would have to provide some
knowledge and time (I could offer time if someone in London can
offer internet connection ...).

BTW: It would be a good idea to have 3 or 4 people with access
to the system. So emergency response time can be very short even
during holiday season :wink:

Thomas

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--
# Jack de Valpine
# president
#
# visarc incorporated
# http://www.visarc.com
#
# channeling technology for superior design and construction

Jack de Valpine wrote:

The rest I offer just as a way to help get on the table some
of the issues that we need to consider. I think there are two
critical issues:

1. domain name transfer - I am not sure about this but I do not
think that someone can just go and sign up for the domain name,
is there a process through Network Solutions for Peter to transfer
the domain name to another party who would pay for and administer
the domain name?

As soon as the current registration expires everyone can in fact
sign up for this domain. That's why we need to do it first and as
soon as possible. If there are any problems in transfering the
domain to another ISP (which should not happen because it's only
bad customer service on the side of one of the providers) I can
ask friends who run a small ISP to help us with this.
   

2. site content and functionality - would it be worth considering
some kind of "open source" oriented hosting/project service such
as sourceforge or ibiblio?

It is not clear to me whether a commercial hosting service (some
of which can be had quite cheaply) would be able to fulfill the
range of functionality that the site currently has, perhaps others
know more. So this would suggest that some kind of co-location
solution may be required.

I'm not up to date on the offers of SF and alike. What we need now
is basically (and in order of my personal preference):

1) mailing-lists
2) CVS
3) download of resources (Workshop CDs, etc)
4) news and links about Radiance events

Short of an academic sponsor for this unofficial site I think hosting
is the best way for a reliable and troublefree internet presence.
My proposal to rent a virtual "root" server is based on the assumption
that in terms of load and size the above list does not justify a "real"
(hardware) server. Virtual servers are cheaper and provide at least
the same level of controll.

I'd like to have a dedicated "machine" for radiance-online.org because
much more than the above is possible and has been discussed and realised
in the past by various individuals. Depending on the dedication and
skill
of the admins we could set up a Wiki, resources repository or CMS
(documentation!) to collect all the small bits of information out there
in one site.

Thomas

···

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If you have any queries, please contact the sender.
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***********************************************************************************

Shall we ask LBNL if they'd be willing to host the site? The old site is a bit dead, and could benefit from a little revitalization. Are there arguments for/against having LBNL do it before I ask?

-Greg

Peter, can you provide some figures for traffic and the size
of radiance-online.org (GB of available data, size of archive
and CVS)?

The stats are on the site: http://www.radiance-online.org/webalizer/stats/

For May, 25k pages generated 8GB of traffic

This is quite a bit, and hosting will not be cheap. I reckon at least
300-400 Euros.

I don't know if this is only normal web pages, and how much CVS traffic
there is. For CVS, SF would probably be a good idea.

Altough I'd be happy to offer academic band-width sponsorship, I have to
admit that we don't have the resources (time and hardware) to support
this. Plus on top of this, our network and power are rather unreliable. As
an example: luminance, where webhdr and learnix are hosted, is a K6-II
500MHz. This is as good as it gets.

Having said all that, I would happily dedicate some of my own time setting
up a box and maintaining it. This would require SSH access, though, which
not many hosters are willing to provide these days. It would be much
better if a generous sponsor could bring up a box.

Cheers

Axel

Hi Thomas,

I think that what I mean about the domain name transfer. Is not transferring the domain name from one registrar to another this should not be an issue. What I was wondering about is rather than wait for expiration and re-register the domain, if we could not arrange for a more orderly transfer. Actually, I have just gone to my Network Solutions account, a preliminary review looks like it is possible to request transfer from own party to another, so this may be the best mechanism.

I have a friend who is a networking/security consultant, I will ask him for recommendations for virtual hosting providers.

-Jack

Bleicher, Thomas wrote:

···

Jack de Valpine wrote:

The rest I offer just as a way to help get on the table some
of the issues that we need to consider. I think there are two
critical issues:

1. domain name transfer - I am not sure about this but I do not
think that someone can just go and sign up for the domain name,
is there a process through Network Solutions for Peter to transfer
the domain name to another party who would pay for and administer
the domain name?
    
As soon as the current registration expires everyone can in fact
sign up for this domain. That's why we need to do it first and as
soon as possible. If there are any problems in transfering the
domain to another ISP (which should not happen because it's only
bad customer service on the side of one of the providers) I can
ask friends who run a small ISP to help us with this.
   
2. site content and functionality - would it be worth considering
some kind of "open source" oriented hosting/project service such
as sourceforge or ibiblio?

It is not clear to me whether a commercial hosting service (some
of which can be had quite cheaply) would be able to fulfill the
range of functionality that the site currently has, perhaps others
know more. So this would suggest that some kind of co-location
solution may be required.
    
I'm not up to date on the offers of SF and alike. What we need now
is basically (and in order of my personal preference):

1) mailing-lists 2) CVS
3) download of resources (Workshop CDs, etc)
4) news and links about Radiance events

Short of an academic sponsor for this unofficial site I think hosting
is the best way for a reliable and troublefree internet presence. My proposal to rent a virtual "root" server is based on the assumption
that in terms of load and size the above list does not justify a "real"
(hardware) server. Virtual servers are cheaper and provide at least
the same level of controll.

I'd like to have a dedicated "machine" for radiance-online.org because
much more than the above is possible and has been discussed and realised
in the past by various individuals. Depending on the dedication and
skill
of the admins we could set up a Wiki, resources repository or CMS
(documentation!) to collect all the small bits of information out there
in one site.

Thomas

***********************************************************************************
This e-mail, (and any attachments) is confidential and may be privileged. It may be read, copied and used by the intended addressee only. If you have received this in error please contact BDP immediately.

If you have any queries, please contact the sender.
***********************************************************************************
Building Design Partnership
Registered in England No 2207415:
Registered Office: Building Design Partnership Ltd, Sunlight House, PO Box 85, Quay Street, Manchester, M60 3JA, http://www.bdp.co.uk
***********************************************************************************

_______________________________________________
Radiance-dev mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-dev

--
# Jack de Valpine
# president
#
# visarc incorporated
# http://www.visarc.com
#
# channeling technology for superior design and construction

Hi Greg,

This sound's like it would a good option to consider. However, if we want to have a handful of people who can do some administration, would they be able to do it remotely, ie would LBNL allow remote access/administration?

Additionally, though it would certainly be a project, this could lead to some consolidation of information between the old radsite and radiance-online.

-Jack

Gregory J. Ward wrote:

···

Shall we ask LBNL if they'd be willing to host the site? The old site is a bit dead, and could benefit from a little revitalization. Are there arguments for/against having LBNL do it before I ask?

-Greg

_______________________________________________
Radiance-dev mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-dev

--
# Jack de Valpine
# president
#
# visarc incorporated
# http://www.visarc.com
#
# channeling technology for superior design and construction

We'd have to ask, but I think they'd be OK with remote site administration. I do a lot of my LBNL consulting work via ssh, but that doesn't require root access. Danny Fuller, their IT guy, also prefers FreeBSD over Linux, and I'm not sure what issues that might cause.

I agree that it would be great to consolidate the old site with radiance-online.org.

-Greg

···

From: Jack de Valpine <[email protected]>
Date: May 31, 2006 12:09:05 PM PDT

Hi Greg,

This sound's like it would a good option to consider. However, if we want to have a handful of people who can do some administration, would they be able to do it remotely, ie would LBNL allow remote access/administration?

Additionally, though it would certainly be a project, this could lead to some consolidation of information between the old radsite and radiance-online.

-Jack

Gregory J. Ward wrote:

Shall we ask LBNL if they'd be willing to host the site? The old site is a bit dead, and could benefit from a little revitalization. Are there arguments for/against having LBNL do it before I ask?

-Greg

I am not sure that the flavor of unix should matter that much, so long as it does not stand in the way of an easy transition of the site. I think probably the first priority needs to be just getting the site operational as is. If we can get a resource such as LBNL to host and they say FreeBSD, I am not that wedded to Linux. On the other hand perhaps more people in the group are familiar with Linux....?

-Jack

Gregory J. Ward wrote:

···

We'd have to ask, but I think they'd be OK with remote site administration. I do a lot of my LBNL consulting work via ssh, but that doesn't require root access. Danny Fuller, their IT guy, also prefers FreeBSD over Linux, and I'm not sure what issues that might cause.

I agree that it would be great to consolidate the old site with radiance-online.org.

-Greg

From: Jack de Valpine <[email protected]>
Date: May 31, 2006 12:09:05 PM PDT

Hi Greg,

This sound's like it would a good option to consider. However, if we want to have a handful of people who can do some administration, would they be able to do it remotely, ie would LBNL allow remote access/administration?

Additionally, though it would certainly be a project, this could lead to some consolidation of information between the old radsite and radiance-online.

-Jack

Gregory J. Ward wrote:

Shall we ask LBNL if they'd be willing to host the site? The old site is a bit dead, and could benefit from a little revitalization. Are there arguments for/against having LBNL do it before I ask?

-Greg

_______________________________________________
Radiance-dev mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-dev

--
# Jack de Valpine
# president
#
# visarc incorporated
# http://www.visarc.com
#
# channeling technology for superior design and construction

Absolutely yes, you can transfer ownership/management of the domain without letting it expire first. That could be set up in advance of the physical server change. Pending LBNL's response to Greg's request that they host the site, I can ask my friend who hosts my personal website if he's interested in picking this up. He's got a nice server in a colo in Seattle and he is the CTO of a large eCommerce site; he knows how to run a website. He's open to installing most software and ssh access is a given, so it could be a good hosting option of the LBNL thing falls through. Greg, let me know.

Peter, a huge Thank You to you for setting up and running radiance-online.org. I agree with Jack that your site (and especially the list) has been instrumental in invigorating the interest and support of this great program called Radiance. Thanks!

···

On May 31, 2006, at 1:04 PM, Jack de Valpine wrote:

Hi Thomas,

I think that what I mean about the domain name transfer. Is not transferring the domain name from one registrar to another this should not be an issue. What I was wondering about is rather than wait for expiration and re-register the domain, if we could not arrange for a more orderly transfer. Actually, I have just gone to my Network Solutions account, a preliminary review looks like it is possible to request transfer from own party to another, so this may be the best mechanism.

Hi.

As things start to develop rather fast at the moment, I will add some ideas to the discussion.

As some may or may not memember, I asked about some kind of Radiance Knowledge Base some time ago, as I found the wiki to be dead. After that, at least documentation projects were started, one being some kind of keyword-based and directory (Axel's project, I think he will show us more soon :wink: with ranking to make information available, the other an attempt to implement the collaborative writing ideas discussed here I started using the CMS called Drupal, which offers a content type called book that not only can be edited, but also ex- and imported for those working offline and even, still limited, export to docbook. It is also possible to use tex-written content (useful for the maths and not unimportant for Radiance). As I did plan to first stabilize and fill with some content, I had not announced this, but the site's skeleton is available at radiance.free-architecture.org. Actually I would prefer it to be integrated into radiance-online as close as possible.

If a new Radiance site is set up, I offer to move all my existing efforts over to that. So please think over how useful the integration of this documentation effort would be, and consider even taking the installation as a CMS for the new site.

Second, I asked people from my old university if it is possible to host the site. I did not get any answer, but maybe it is one more option to choose. It would add Solaris to the list of platform/OS options. But actually, for web services, I never saw much of a difference between all the unix-likes.

CU Lars.

Greg Ward wrote:

We'd have to ask, but I think they'd be OK with remote site
administration. I do a lot of my LBNL consulting work via ssh, but
that doesn't require root access. Danny Fuller, their IT guy, also
prefers FreeBSD over Linux, and I'm not sure what issues that might
cause.

The problem with academic sponsorship might be that we have to
ask for (and have approved) any new service we want to offer.
If we don't know the right person to ask this could take a
long time. As well I'm not sure their admins would be happy
with people messing around on one of their machines who are
not directly connected to the institute.

OTOH I obviously had a wrong idea about hosting prices these
days ... From the financial point of view any sponsorship would
be preferred. If we can get a liberal (internet) sponsor I'd be
happy to help setting things up there. But I'd think twice if
it includes restrictions about what we can do with the site.

I agree that it would be great to consolidate the old site with
radiance-online.org.

It is a great idea to consolidate any knowledge out there.
A tidy radiance-online.org would be a good start.

Thomas

···

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If you have any queries, please contact the sender.
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***********************************************************************************

Hi.

So after last week's mail traffic peak it got calm here again. Who will take over the domain? Did you ask at lbl, Greg? I did not get an answer so far from my ex-university.

Did anybody consider my content-management proposal? If you want I can activate some functions that may be necessary for a general web-site (and which I have switched off until now to make the environment easier for the documentation-only project). If it sounds interesting to you (at least as an option so that we should play around with and try it), I am willing to give some afternoons to work on it, so that it may become the base for a future radiance-online.org transition. If not, I will spend the time doing some day- and sunlight studies at the sea instead. :wink:

CU Lars.

Hi Lars,

I inquired with Stephen Selkowitz at LBNL, who expressed an interest in assuming the radiance-online.org domain and revitalizing the Radiance website. I will attempt to meet with him on the topic this week, but since I will be gone for a month starting Monday, this isn't the best time for me to oversee such an operation. Not that I'm the best person to do it, anyway. I think if we can get Steve to agree and Danny Fuller at LBNL talking with Peter A-B, the wheels will be in proper motion.

-Greg

···

From: "Lars O. Grobe" <[email protected]>
Date: June 6, 2006 6:50:21 AM PDT

Hi.

So after last week's mail traffic peak it got calm here again. Who will take over the domain? Did you ask at lbl, Greg? I did not get an answer so far from my ex-university.

Did anybody consider my content-management proposal? If you want I can activate some functions that may be necessary for a general web-site (and which I have switched off until now to make the environment easier for the documentation-only project). If it sounds interesting to you (at least as an option so that we should play around with and try it), I am willing to give some afternoons to work on it, so that it may become the base for a future radiance-online.org transition. If not, I will spend the time doing some day- and sunlight studies at the sea instead. :wink:

CU Lars.

I guess it's time to crawl out from under my rock once again...

It may make sense to split the job into the following parts:

1) CVS
2) Source and binary downloads
3) Mailing lists
4) Mailing list archives
5) General introduction and links
6) Workshop data
7) Knowledge base (future)

The first three can easily be solved on Sourceforge. I already
run a project there, and would have no problem to set up another
one. Unfortunately, their mailing list archive functionality
is suboptimal, so we better keep item 4) on a seperate site.

I can host another domain on my account at www.pair.com for 1 USD
per Month. It should not be too much work (I hope) to maintain
the mailing list archives and the general information pages there.
The easiest way to distribute the workload would be to turn the
complete site (minus the archives) into a wiki. Most of the
currently static pages could be made dynamic, so that the members
of the community can help to keep them up to date. The wiki
technology then allows to grow that into a more complete
knowledgebase collaboratively over time.

The only problem are the presentations from the Workshops,
because of their sheer volume. If we want to keep those CDs
online both as ISO images and for direct access, then we need a
place to store up to 1.5 GB of data per year. Since this data
never changes once it has been posted, maybe Radsite at LBNL
would be a good place to host it. That way they could help us the
most with the least maintenance effort at their end.

I'm still waiting for Peter do divulge a few real life figures
about work effort, disk usage, and bandwidth requirements. The
latter shouldn't be a problem as I have 200GB/month to burn, but
knowing more about the first two would make it easier to decide
about the best way to proceed.

over the last year or so, I have neglected the Radiance community
(and others) much more than I would have liked. I'm not sure if
I'll have much more time available for active development in the
future, but I'd be happy to offer some support for the community
infrastructure. Keeping an eye on a few mostly automated
procedures should be well within my capacities. I am already
familiar with both Mailman (for the archives) and MoinMoin (for
the wiki), so it's just a matter of configuring another instance
of each for this domain.

-schorsch

···

--
Georg Mischler -- simulations developer -- schorsch at schorsch com
+schorsch.com+ -- lighting design tools -- http://www.schorsch.com/

Hi Schorsch,

Good to hear from you. Rumors of your death were apparently exaggerated.

I have the following from Peter on upkeep requirements for radiance-online.org.

From: Peter Apian-Bennewitz <[email protected]>
Date: June 2, 2006 12:42:01 AM PDT

Depends heavily on how much one does similar jobs. The Apache configs (Php, mailman integration etc) and email (Exim4) didn't cost me much, since I was/am paid at ISE to do their Apaches/Exims . Without that, staying up to date would require to much unpaid hours.
As a rough figure I would recommend 5h/week on average, without the background keeping-up-to-date hours.

That doesn't account for new things, which are needed. The still missing database frontend to sort out the user feedback form is one minor example.

I just grew tired of doing this support, and the long story of the documentation system, - which we could have had in October 2005, if it weren't for the academic research idea, was the final stroke. Quite frankly, I sometimes missed some official blessing of yours, and - given the fact that Radiance is still very much an author (not to say sole guru) centric software, that might have been influential (also in locating funding from companies for further work).
As a positive aspect- others might inject new ideas and new life. Better I leave now, than try to hang on to it for too long.

Timing is relatively easy. LBNL IT folks could request a domain transfer, so my current registrar (Network Solutions) would ask me whether that's ok and the domain name is transferred to LBNL. From that moment all email/web access to radiance-online.org would end up at your server. Before that, I could go offline with my server, write a DVD/CD and sent it. A downtime of 2 weeks seems managable.

-Peter

Also, Axel points out that the site stats are available directly:

The stats are on the site: http://www.radiance-online.org/webalizer/stats/

For May, 25k pages generated 8GB of traffic

LBNL could certainly host the workshop data, along with the official software downloads, which are already on there. We need to link the CVS system with the HEAD distribution, obviously, and it would be great if you could manage that. That just leaves the mailing lists, which I could manage if necessary, though I'd love to have someone else volunteer to act as administrator. This mostly involves discarding messages missed by the spam filter these days.

The knowledge base is the main part that needs work, and I don't know enough about wiki's and the various other options to have an opinion on that.

-Greg

Gregory J. Ward wrote:

I have the following from Peter on upkeep requirements for radiance-
online.org.

> From: Peter Apian-Bennewitz
>
> Depends heavily on how much one does similar jobs. The Apache
> configs (Php, mailman integration etc) and email (Exim4) didn't
> cost me much, since I was/am paid at ISE to do their Apaches/
> Exims . Without that, staying up to date would require to much
> unpaid hours.
> As a rough figure I would recommend 5h/week on average, without the
> background keeping-up-to-date hours.

That sounds mostly like general system administration chores.
The folks at Pair Networks do a great job at keeping their
systems secure and up to date, so I don't need to worry about
most of this.

Since Peter didn't say much about working on the web site as
such, I assume that part is almost neglectible in comparison.
Obviously, there will be some effort required to configure
everything, but I don't expect much recurring work to be
necessary.

We need to link the
CVS system with the HEAD distribution, obviously, and it would be
great if you could manage that. That just leaves the mailing lists,
which I could manage if necessary, though I'd love to have someone
else volunteer to act as administrator.

It should be possible to set up a cron job at Sourceforge to
create the HEAD dump automatically (and serve it from there).
At the same time, we'll have read-only CVS access for everybody,
so that a nightly dump may not be quite as important anymore as
it used to be.

Downloads from Sourceforge are mirrored by dozens of sites all
around the world, so that we won't really need to duplicate the
downloads at LBNL anymore.

Administrative duties for the mailing lists can easily be shared
between several people. I can also delegate administrative
priveledges to some of the Wiki users.

The knowledge base is the main part that needs work, and I don't know
enough about wiki's and the various other options to have an opinion
on that.

Since we have a rather small pool of active users, keeping the
administrative overhead down is crucial. And for a site intended
to collaboratively collect documentation, a Wiki is the simplest
solution for everybody.

-schorsch

···

--
Georg Mischler -- simulations developer -- schorsch at schorsch com
+schorsch.com+ -- lighting design tools -- http://www.schorsch.com/

Hi Schorsch,

It should be possible to set up a cron job at Sourceforge to
create the HEAD dump automatically (and serve it from there).
At the same time, we'll have read-only CVS access for everybody,
so that a nightly dump may not be quite as important anymore as
it used to be.

Umm... this is the first mention of Sourceforge. Other than the dozens of mirror sites and mass confusion that results, is there any advantage to going this route? Would we lose the nice CVS source tree access Peter's set up at <http://www.radiance-online.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/>? I have no problem with read-only CVS access, though I don't find the system terribly convenient, myself.

-Greg

Oh yeah, SF has their own version of viewcvs. The web interface is
annoying, but at least it's comprehensive.

But I would recommend against SourceForge. IMHO they've been going
downhill over the last few years. Many times I've tried to update some SF
project via anonymous CVS and found the CVS server not responding. I'd
only use SF as a last resort.

bye

···

On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 19:04:20 -0700 "Gregory J. Ward" <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Schorsch,

> It should be possible to set up a cron job at Sourceforge to
> create the HEAD dump automatically (and serve it from there).
> At the same time, we'll have read-only CVS access for everybody,
> so that a nightly dump may not be quite as important anymore as
> it used to be.

Umm... this is the first mention of Sourceforge. Other than the
dozens of mirror sites and mass confusion that results, is there any
advantage to going this route? Would we lose the nice CVS source
tree access Peter's set up at <http://www.radiance-online.org/cgi-bin/
viewcvs.cgi/>? I have no problem with read-only CVS access, though I
don't find the system terribly convenient, myself.