Python script (perl -S 'works')

Hi.
I can confirm that Thomas' suggestion to use prepend genskyvec.pl with 'perl -S' appears to work on a windows 7 machine when run from a Python script. I have not tested numerical correspondence with OSX/linux yet as I am still going through the remainder of my code to get it to work with the windows command line (a process which is very much like extracting one's own teeth).
Ryan

···

On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:00:00 +0100, <[email protected]> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: partly covered source (Thomas Bleicher)
   2. Re: BSDF xml into Radiance (Greg Ward)
   3. Genskyvec error revisited (Guglielmetti, Robert)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:01:11 +0200
From: Thomas Bleicher <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] partly covered source
Message-ID:
  <CAKGV-k3sBnDu3WCYOx9L723x1n-28HP80MvxNmyOQ8izTmbehA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jan

You could get the direction of the sun from your sky description and point
rtrace in that direction and only get the material (-om). You can add your
own variations to sample the whole disc to calculate the visible part of
the sun if that's what you need.

Thomas

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 9:50 PM, Jan Wienold > <[email protected]>wrote:

Hi Giulio, hi all,

unfortunately it doesn't work out safely. In total I have many, many cases
to look at (in total 40000 timesteps x 33 points x 2geometries) and there
are still many cases, when rtrace doesn't catch the sun.
Since these are calculations for an expertise, which is used for a trial,
I have to be absolutely sure not to miss any case...

Is there any idea except calculating images ? Source subdivisions are
unfortunately not possible when "source" is used...

Thanks!

Jan

On 07/24/2012 02:13 AM, Jan Wienold wrote:

hi giulio,

Yes!
The use of -dj helped, but only if I use also the -u option. Otherwise I
still get randomized zero values, also if I change -ds.

thanks!

jan

On 07/24/2012 01:35 AM, giulio antonutto wrote:

Jan,
maybe you can fix it with -dj and oversampling?
G

On 24 Jul 2012, at 00:03, Jan Wienold wrote:

Hi all,

I just encountered a strange different behavior between rtrace and
rpict:
If the sun ( using "source") is covered in large parts (in that case
more than half) I can still "see" the uncovered parts in the image (=>this
is what I expect). In case I calculate at the same point and in the same
direction the illuminance with rtrace -I, I get zero contribution. Is just
the center of the source description tested in that case? Any solution for
this for rtrace?
I just look for the sun, no sky description and use only direct
calculation (-ab 0) .

Thanks,

Jan

--
Dr.-Ing. Jan Wienold
Head of Team Passive Systems and Daylighting
Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme
Thermal Systems and Buildings
Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany
Phone: +49(0)761 4588 5133 Fax:+49(0)761 4588 9133
[email protected]
http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de

In office:
Mo,Tue: 8:30-18:00
We,Thu: 8:30-16:00
Fr: 8:30-15:30

______________________________**_________________
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http://www.radiance-online.**org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-**general<http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general>

--
Dr.-Ing. Jan Wienold
Head of Team Passive Systems and Daylighting
Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme
Thermal Systems and Buildings
Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany
Phone: +49(0)761 4588 5133 Fax:+49(0)761 4588 9133
[email protected]
http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de

In office:
Mo,Tue: 8:30-18:00
We,Thu: 8:30-16:00
Fr: 8:30-15:30

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list
Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<[email protected]>
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:44:51 -0700
From: Greg Ward <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] BSDF xml into Radiance
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Lars,

Andy probably is the right person to respond to this, but as he's on a vacation until the end of the month, I thought I'd offer a couple of comments (inline).

Cheers,
-Greg

From: "Lars O. Grobe" <[email protected]>
Date: July 25, 2012 1:18:42 AM PDT

Hi Andy, hi list-subscribers,

I just came across this recent message about the usability of the bsdf
material type with patch-based models of the sky including direct sun
and complex fenestration. To avoid misunderstandings, I will try a short
summary for others to comment on available options for annual
simulations with complex glazing:

1) classic radiance tools (rpict, rtrace), complemented by mkillum to
relax ambient setting.

Advantages: low noise, validated.

Disadvantages: very slow for annual simulations, no support when
non-planar specular reflective surfaces are involved.

More specifically, non-planar, specular reflectors run into trouble for insolation. Cloudy skies or sunless skies are no problem.

2) rtcontrib and patch-based model.

Advantages: faster for annual simulations.

Disadvantages: noise, nice images require high (slow) -ad and cannot be
optimized using mkillum, limitations about specular non-planar
reflectors apply.

The accuracy of non-planar, specular reflectors is actually better than #1, but the results are somewhat noisy. A new -c option to vwrays (coupled with the rtcontrib -c option) is a good way to reduce noise that is available in the latest HEAD. This is a better way to reduce noise than increasing -ad, and less costly.

3) rtcontrib and patch-based model, bsdf.

Advantages: support for non-planar reflectors, should be slightly faster
than 2) as the fenestration system does not have to be traced internally
- did anyone compare?

Disadvantages: still high -ad settings required leading to extended
rendering times and still no way to get mkillum in, tends to
underestimate direct sun (according Andy's message).

4) three-phase-method.

Advantages: very fast, can also be used with non-planar specular
reflectors as bsdf data is supported.

Disadvantages: requires quite a lot of set-up work, e.g. subdivisions to
reflect external obstructions. Patches visible in the results,
fenestration geometry is not visible.

Andy has proposed an improved annual simulation method, which we hope to work on next year, to remedy the direct solar sampling difficulties in the 3-phase method. It should also alleviate problems with external facade geometry and reduce the need to subdivide windows.

5) pmap.

Advantages: can be used with non-planar reflectors and multi-peak
transmission.

Disadvantages: unknown status (any news?), not integrated with rtcontrib
(contributions would need to be rendered manually).

So if I need a way to generate images with visible fenestration
geometry, the only reliable option would be 2), which requires very
hight settings for -ad and thud will still be rather time-consuming, if
noise is to be controlled.

Cheers, Lars.

On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 08:43 -0700, Andrew McNeil wrote:

Though I've found that the BSDF material doesn't work well for
daylight coefficient based annual simulations (I'm assuming dds.bash
is a dynamic daylight simulation script). Putting the solar radiance
into skypatches relies on probabilistic sampling to find patches
containing the sun, and if you don't have much direct transmission
from the direction of the sun, you aren't likely to find the sun. Not
finding the sun causes big errors.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:01:03 -0600
From: "Guglielmetti, Robert" <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: [Radiance-general] Genskyvec error revisited
Message-ID: <CC35907F.12D36%[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well, it looks like WindowsXP isn't the only problem. While genskyvec.pl
works fine with piped input from the command line on Windows7, when it's
called from within my Ruby script, I get the same error that Ryan Southall
reported with his Python script
(http://www.radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/2012-July/008758
.html).

Greg, I tried your suggestion again as well:

I can't test it for you, but I suspect the line:
} elsif (/\sskyfunc\s*$/) {
is the problem. Try removing the final '\s*' to make it:
  } elsif (/\sskyfunc$/) {

...but no luck.

Ryan, have you made any more progress with this issue? Anyone else?
Bueller?

Rob Guglielmetti IESNA, LEED AP
Commercial Buildings Research Group
National Renewable Energy Laboratory
15013 Denver West Parkway MS:RSF202
Golden, CO 80401
303.275.4319
[email protected]

------------------------------

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End of Radiance-general Digest, Vol 101, Issue 31
*************************************************

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--
--
Dr Ryan Southall
Senior Research Fellow
School of Architecture & Design
University of Brighton
Mithras House
Lewes Rd
Brighton
BN2 4AT
T: ++44 (0) 1273 642335
E: [email protected]

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Thanks Ryan. That doesn't work on Ruby, unfortunately. Still looking
around the intertubes for a solution here.

Rob Guglielmetti IESNA, LEED AP
Commercial Buildings Research Group
National Renewable Energy Laboratory
15013 Denver West Parkway MS:RSF202
Golden, CO 80401
303.275.4319
[email protected]

···

On 7/25/12 2:46 PM, "Ryan Southall" <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi.
I can confirm that Thomas' suggestion to use prepend genskyvec.pl with
'perl -S' appears to work on a windows 7 machine when run from a Python
script. I have not tested numerical correspondence with OSX/linux yet as
I
am still going through the remainder of my code to get it to work with
the
windows command line (a process which is very much like extracting one's
own teeth).
Ryan

On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:00:00 +0100, ><[email protected]> wrote:

Send Radiance-general mailing list submissions to
  [email protected]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
  http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
  [email protected]

You can reach the person managing the list at
  [email protected]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Radiance-general digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: partly covered source (Thomas Bleicher)
   2. Re: BSDF xml into Radiance (Greg Ward)
   3. Genskyvec error revisited (Guglielmetti, Robert)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:01:11 +0200
From: Thomas Bleicher <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] partly covered source
Message-ID:
  <CAKGV-k3sBnDu3WCYOx9L723x1n-28HP80MvxNmyOQ8izTmbehA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jan

You could get the direction of the sun from your sky description and
point
rtrace in that direction and only get the material (-om). You can add
your
own variations to sample the whole disc to calculate the visible part of
the sun if that's what you need.

Thomas

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 9:50 PM, Jan Wienold >> <[email protected]>wrote:

Hi Giulio, hi all,

unfortunately it doesn't work out safely. In total I have many, many
cases
to look at (in total 40000 timesteps x 33 points x 2geometries) and
there
are still many cases, when rtrace doesn't catch the sun.
Since these are calculations for an expertise, which is used for a
trial,
I have to be absolutely sure not to miss any case...

Is there any idea except calculating images ? Source subdivisions are
unfortunately not possible when "source" is used...

Thanks!

Jan

On 07/24/2012 02:13 AM, Jan Wienold wrote:

hi giulio,

Yes!
The use of -dj helped, but only if I use also the -u option.
Otherwise
I
still get randomized zero values, also if I change -ds.

thanks!

jan

On 07/24/2012 01:35 AM, giulio antonutto wrote:

Jan,
maybe you can fix it with -dj and oversampling?
G

On 24 Jul 2012, at 00:03, Jan Wienold wrote:

Hi all,

I just encountered a strange different behavior between rtrace and
rpict:
If the sun ( using "source") is covered in large parts (in that
case
more than half) I can still "see" the uncovered parts in the image
(=>this
is what I expect). In case I calculate at the same point and in the

same
direction the illuminance with rtrace -I, I get zero contribution.

Is just
the center of the source description tested in that case? Any
solution for
this for rtrace?
I just look for the sun, no sky description and use only direct
calculation (-ab 0) .

Thanks,

Jan

--
Dr.-Ing. Jan Wienold
Head of Team Passive Systems and Daylighting
Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme
Thermal Systems and Buildings
Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany
Phone: +49(0)761 4588 5133 Fax:+49(0)761 4588 9133
[email protected]
http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de

In office:
Mo,Tue: 8:30-18:00
We,Thu: 8:30-16:00
Fr: 8:30-15:30

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list

Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<Radiance-general@radiance-onli
ne.org>

http://www.radiance-online.**org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-**general<
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general>

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list

Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<Radiance-general@radiance-onlin
e.org>

http://www.radiance-online.**org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-**general<h
ttp://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general>

--
Dr.-Ing. Jan Wienold
Head of Team Passive Systems and Daylighting
Fraunhofer-Institut f?r Solare Energiesysteme
Thermal Systems and Buildings
Heidenhofstr. 2, 79110 Freiburg, Germany
Phone: +49(0)761 4588 5133 Fax:+49(0)761 4588 9133
[email protected]
http://www.ise.fraunhofer.de

In office:
Mo,Tue: 8:30-18:00
We,Thu: 8:30-16:00
Fr: 8:30-15:30

______________________________**_________________
Radiance-general mailing list

Radiance-general@radiance-**online.org<Radiance-general@radiance-online.

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p://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general>

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:44:51 -0700
From: Greg Ward <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Radiance-general] BSDF xml into Radiance
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Lars,

Andy probably is the right person to respond to this, but as he's on a
vacation until the end of the month, I thought I'd offer a couple of
comments (inline).

Cheers,
-Greg

From: "Lars O. Grobe" <[email protected]>
Date: July 25, 2012 1:18:42 AM PDT

Hi Andy, hi list-subscribers,

I just came across this recent message about the usability of the bsdf
material type with patch-based models of the sky including direct sun
and complex fenestration. To avoid misunderstandings, I will try a
short
summary for others to comment on available options for annual
simulations with complex glazing:

1) classic radiance tools (rpict, rtrace), complemented by mkillum to
relax ambient setting.

Advantages: low noise, validated.

Disadvantages: very slow for annual simulations, no support when
non-planar specular reflective surfaces are involved.

More specifically, non-planar, specular reflectors run into trouble for

insolation. Cloudy skies or sunless skies are no problem.

2) rtcontrib and patch-based model.

Advantages: faster for annual simulations.

Disadvantages: noise, nice images require high (slow) -ad and cannot be
optimized using mkillum, limitations about specular non-planar
reflectors apply.

The accuracy of non-planar, specular reflectors is actually better than

#1, but the results are somewhat noisy. A new -c option to vwrays
(coupled with the rtcontrib -c option) is a good way to reduce noise
that is available in the latest HEAD. This is a better way to reduce
noise than increasing -ad, and less costly.

3) rtcontrib and patch-based model, bsdf.

Advantages: support for non-planar reflectors, should be slightly
faster
than 2) as the fenestration system does not have to be traced
internally
- did anyone compare?

Disadvantages: still high -ad settings required leading to extended
rendering times and still no way to get mkillum in, tends to
underestimate direct sun (according Andy's message).

4) three-phase-method.

Advantages: very fast, can also be used with non-planar specular
reflectors as bsdf data is supported.

Disadvantages: requires quite a lot of set-up work, e.g. subdivisions
to
reflect external obstructions. Patches visible in the results,
fenestration geometry is not visible.

Andy has proposed an improved annual simulation method, which we hope
to
work on next year, to remedy the direct solar sampling difficulties in
the 3-phase method. It should also alleviate problems with external
facade geometry and reduce the need to subdivide windows.

5) pmap.

Advantages: can be used with non-planar reflectors and multi-peak
transmission.

Disadvantages: unknown status (any news?), not integrated with
rtcontrib
(contributions would need to be rendered manually).

So if I need a way to generate images with visible fenestration
geometry, the only reliable option would be 2), which requires very
hight settings for -ad and thud will still be rather time-consuming, if
noise is to be controlled.

Cheers, Lars.

On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 08:43 -0700, Andrew McNeil wrote:

Though I've found that the BSDF material doesn't work well for
daylight coefficient based annual simulations (I'm assuming dds.bash
is a dynamic daylight simulation script). Putting the solar radiance
into skypatches relies on probabilistic sampling to find patches
containing the sun, and if you don't have much direct transmission
from the direction of the sun, you aren't likely to find the sun. Not
finding the sun causes big errors.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:01:03 -0600
From: "Guglielmetti, Robert" <[email protected]>
To: Radiance general discussion <[email protected]>
Subject: [Radiance-general] Genskyvec error revisited
Message-ID: <CC35907F.12D36%[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well, it looks like WindowsXP isn't the only problem. While genskyvec.pl
works fine with piped input from the command line on Windows7, when it's
called from within my Ruby script, I get the same error that Ryan
Southall
reported with his Python script

(http://www.radiance-online.org/pipermail/radiance-general/2012-July/0087
58
.html).

Greg, I tried your suggestion again as well:

I can't test it for you, but I suspect the line:
} elsif (/\sskyfunc\s*$/) {
is the problem. Try removing the final '\s*' to make it:
  } elsif (/\sskyfunc$/) {

...but no luck.

Ryan, have you made any more progress with this issue? Anyone else?
Bueller?

Rob Guglielmetti IESNA, LEED AP
Commercial Buildings Research Group
National Renewable Energy Laboratory
15013 Denver West Parkway MS:RSF202
Golden, CO 80401
303.275.4319
[email protected]

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

End of Radiance-general Digest, Vol 101, Issue 31
*************************************************

___________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security
System on behalf of the University of Brighton.
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___________________________________________________________

--
--
Dr Ryan Southall
Senior Research Fellow
School of Architecture & Design
University of Brighton
Mithras House
Lewes Rd
Brighton
BN2 4AT
T: ++44 (0) 1273 642335
E: [email protected]

___________________________________________________________
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