5-phase method - Direct daylight matrix

Hi all,

My question is regarding the 5-phase method tutorial, example 1, section
6.6. I was wondering why glazing.rad is not included in the all black model
of the direct daylight matrix (after "-").

Best,
Leyla

Hi Leyla,
This section computes the direct component of the three-phase method in
order to subtract it out. The transmission properties of glazing.rad are
contained in the BSDF (bsdf/fullwindow.xml) and is applied in the second
dctimestep command in section 6.8.
Best,
Andy

···

On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

My question is regarding the 5-phase method tutorial, example 1, section
6.6. I was wondering why glazing.rad is not included in the all black
model of the direct daylight matrix (after "-").

Best,
Leyla

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Radiance-general mailing list
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Thank you Andy for your response.
Sorry if this sounds dumb. I just want to make sure I am doing it right.
So in the all black model, I include all of the window assembly elements
(window frame, mullions, shading devices) Except for the glass.

Leyla

···

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Leyla,
This section computes the direct component of the three-phase method in
order to subtract it out. The transmission properties of glazing.rad are
contained in the BSDF (bsdf/fullwindow.xml) and is applied in the second
dctimestep command in section 6.8.
Best,
Andy

On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Hi all,

My question is regarding the 5-phase method tutorial, example 1, section
6.6. I was wondering why glazing.rad is not included in the all black
model of the direct daylight matrix (after "-").

Best,
Leyla

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

Hi Leyla,
Assuming the window frame, mullions and shading devices are contained in
the BSDF data, no you don't need those either.
Andy

···

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Thank you Andy for your response.
Sorry if this sounds dumb. I just want to make sure I am doing it right.
So in the all black model, I include all of the window assembly elements
(window frame, mullions, shading devices) Except for the glass.

Leyla

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Leyla,
This section computes the direct component of the three-phase method in
order to subtract it out. The transmission properties of glazing.rad are
contained in the BSDF (bsdf/fullwindow.xml) and is applied in the second
dctimestep command in section 6.8.
Best,
Andy

On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Hi all,

My question is regarding the 5-phase method tutorial, example 1, section
6.6. I was wondering why glazing.rad is not included in the all black
model of the direct daylight matrix (after "-").

Best,
Leyla

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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Andy,
Thank you for clarification. I guess I was confused because I noticed you
had the venetian blinds in your all black model, while it was already
contained in your BSDF. It must have slipped there from previous parts.

$ xform -m black objects/testroom_Swall.rad objects/testroom.rad
objects/ground.rad

\ *objects/venetianblind.rad *| oconv materials/testroom.mat -
objects/viewmtxsurf.rad

\ objects/daymtxsurf.rad skies/sky_white.rad > octs/model_allblack.oct

Best,

Leyla

···

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Leyla,
Assuming the window frame, mullions and shading devices are contained in
the BSDF data, no you don't need those either.
Andy

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Thank you Andy for your response.
Sorry if this sounds dumb. I just want to make sure I am doing it right.
So in the all black model, I include all of the window assembly elements
(window frame, mullions, shading devices) Except for the glass.

Leyla

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Leyla,
This section computes the direct component of the three-phase method in
order to subtract it out. The transmission properties of glazing.rad are
contained in the BSDF (bsdf/fullwindow.xml) and is applied in the second
dctimestep command in section 6.8.
Best,
Andy

On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Hi all,

My question is regarding the 5-phase method tutorial, example 1,
section 6.6. I was wondering why glazing.rad is not included in the
all black model of the direct daylight matrix (after "-").

Best,
Leyla

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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You don't need to include the venetian blinds in that model, but since it
was between the daylight and view matrix polygons it doesn't hurt to
include it.
Andy

···

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]> wrote:

Andy,
Thank you for clarification. I guess I was confused because I noticed you
had the venetian blinds in your all black model, while it was already
contained in your BSDF. It must have slipped there from previous parts.

$ xform -m black objects/testroom_Swall.rad objects/testroom.rad
objects/ground.rad

\ *objects/venetianblind.rad *| oconv materials/testroom.mat -
objects/viewmtxsurf.rad

\ objects/daymtxsurf.rad skies/sky_white.rad > octs/model_allblack.oct

Best,

Leyla

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Leyla,
Assuming the window frame, mullions and shading devices are contained in
the BSDF data, no you don't need those either.
Andy

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Thank you Andy for your response.
Sorry if this sounds dumb. I just want to make sure I am doing it
right. So in the all black model, I include all of the window assembly
elements (window frame, mullions, shading devices) Except for the glass.

Leyla

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Leyla,
This section computes the direct component of the three-phase method in
order to subtract it out. The transmission properties of glazing.rad are
contained in the BSDF (bsdf/fullwindow.xml) and is applied in the second
dctimestep command in section 6.8.
Best,
Andy

On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Hi all,

My question is regarding the 5-phase method tutorial, example 1,
section 6.6. I was wondering why glazing.rad is not included in the
all black model of the direct daylight matrix (after "-").

Best,
Leyla

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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Yes. It makes sense.
Now, may I a question about the direct sun coefficient matrix. I have a
model with windows facing south, west and north and varying shading devices
for each orientation.
Should I create a separate direct sun coefficient matrix for each window
orientation, or would it be correct if I create an all-black model
containing all of the shading devices and pass it to rcontrib. Something
like this:

xform -m black room.rad objects/ground.rad | oconv materials/room.mat -
objects/glazing.rad objects/shading_south.rad objects/shading_west.rad

objects/glazing_bsdf_south.rad objects/glazing_bsdf_west.rad
objects/glazing_bsdf_north.rad

skies/suns.rad > octs/model_suns.oct

*rcontrib < data/photocells.pts -I -ab 1 -ad 65536 -lw 1.52e-5 -dc 1 -dt 0
-dj 0 -st 1 -ss 0 -faf -e MF:6 -f reinhart.cal -b rbin -bn Nrbins -m solar
octs/model_suns.oct > matrices/directsun.dsmxThank you,Leyla*

···

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

You don't need to include the venetian blinds in that model, but since it
was between the daylight and view matrix polygons it doesn't hurt to
include it.
Andy

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Andy,
Thank you for clarification. I guess I was confused because I noticed you
had the venetian blinds in your all black model, while it was already
contained in your BSDF. It must have slipped there from previous parts.

$ xform -m black objects/testroom_Swall.rad objects/testroom.rad
objects/ground.rad

\ *objects/venetianblind.rad *| oconv materials/testroom.mat -
objects/viewmtxsurf.rad

\ objects/daymtxsurf.rad skies/sky_white.rad > octs/model_allblack.oct

Best,

Leyla

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Leyla,
Assuming the window frame, mullions and shading devices are contained in
the BSDF data, no you don't need those either.
Andy

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Thank you Andy for your response.
Sorry if this sounds dumb. I just want to make sure I am doing it
right. So in the all black model, I include all of the window assembly
elements (window frame, mullions, shading devices) Except for the glass.

Leyla

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Leyla,
This section computes the direct component of the three-phase method
in order to subtract it out. The transmission properties of glazing.rad
are contained in the BSDF (bsdf/fullwindow.xml) and is applied in the
second dctimestep command in section 6.8.
Best,
Andy

On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Hi all,

My question is regarding the 5-phase method tutorial, example 1,
section 6.6. I was wondering why glazing.rad is not included in the
all black model of the direct daylight matrix (after "-").

Best,
Leyla

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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If you want to control shading separately for each orientation than you
need a separate run for each window group. You also need a separate model
for each shading state. But if all are controlled together or if there is
no active shading than one model is fine.

Andy

···

On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]> wrote:

Yes. It makes sense.
Now, may I a question about the direct sun coefficient matrix. I have a
model with windows facing south, west and north and varying shading devices
for each orientation.
Should I create a separate direct sun coefficient matrix for each window
orientation, or would it be correct if I create an all-black model
containing all of the shading devices and pass it to rcontrib. Something
like this:

xform -m black room.rad objects/ground.rad | oconv materials/room.mat -
objects/glazing.rad objects/shading_south.rad objects/shading_west.rad

objects/glazing_bsdf_south.rad objects/glazing_bsdf_west.rad
objects/glazing_bsdf_north.rad

skies/suns.rad > octs/model_suns.oct

*rcontrib < data/photocells.pts -I -ab 1 -ad 65536 -lw 1.52e-5 -dc 1 -dt 0
-dj 0 -st 1 -ss 0 -faf -e MF:6 -f reinhart.cal -b rbin -bn Nrbins -m solar
octs/model_suns.oct > matrices/directsun.dsmx Thank you, Leyla*

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

You don't need to include the venetian blinds in that model, but since it
was between the daylight and view matrix polygons it doesn't hurt to
include it.
Andy

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Andy,
Thank you for clarification. I guess I was confused because I noticed
you had the venetian blinds in your all black model, while it was already
contained in your BSDF. It must have slipped there from previous parts.

$ xform -m black objects/testroom_Swall.rad objects/testroom.rad
objects/ground.rad

\ *objects/venetianblind.rad *| oconv materials/testroom.mat -
objects/viewmtxsurf.rad

\ objects/daymtxsurf.rad skies/sky_white.rad > octs/model_allblack.oct

Best,

Leyla

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Leyla,
Assuming the window frame, mullions and shading devices are contained
in the BSDF data, no you don't need those either.
Andy

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Thank you Andy for your response.
Sorry if this sounds dumb. I just want to make sure I am doing it
right. So in the all black model, I include all of the window assembly
elements (window frame, mullions, shading devices) Except for the glass.

Leyla

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Andrew McNeil <[email protected]>wrote:

Hi Leyla,
This section computes the direct component of the three-phase method
in order to subtract it out. The transmission properties of glazing.rad
are contained in the BSDF (bsdf/fullwindow.xml) and is applied in the
second dctimestep command in section 6.8.
Best,
Andy

On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Leyla Sanati <[email protected]>wrote:

Hi all,

My question is regarding the 5-phase method tutorial, example 1,
section 6.6. I was wondering why glazing.rad is not included in the
all black model of the direct daylight matrix (after "-").

Best,
Leyla

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
Radiance-general mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

_______________________________________________
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[email protected]
http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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http://www.radiance-online.org/mailman/listinfo/radiance-general

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